Me?

[cascademn]

Just curious what others might think, because frankly I don't know that I can relate a whole lot to typical INFJ profiles (I just can't relate a whole to any of the type profiles - pieces of one or another) and rather doubt Fe as my main external presentation. I could add a lot of comments of my own, and why I'm creating this thread, but I'll see if anyone responds or has comments first.

A sampling of the cognitive processes thing - taken over various days/months. There's a general pattern here, but it shifts a bit depending on my mood. But overall it's pretty constant (also, I'm not certain, personally, how much this test should really be utilized anyway to determine these things. But I thought I'd throw it out here anyway, since it's the main reason I've started questioning my type).

extraverted Sensing (Se) ********************************** (34.5)
good use
introverted Sensing (Si) ************************ (24.4)
average use
extraverted Intuiting (Ne) *********************************** (35.7)
good use
introverted Intuiting (Ni) *********************************** (35.7)
good use
extraverted Thinking (Te) ******************** (20.5)
limited use
introverted Thinking (Ti) ********************************* (33.5)
good use
extraverted Feeling (Fe) ********************* (21.6)
limited use
introverted Feeling (Fi) ********************************** (34.7)
good use


---------------------

Cognitive Process Level of Development (Preference, Skill and Frequency of Use)
extraverted Sensing (Se) ************************** (26)
average use
introverted Sensing (Si) ***************** (17.9)
limited use
extraverted Intuiting (Ne) *********************************** (35.4)
good use
introverted Intuiting (Ni) *************************************** (39.4)
excellent use
extraverted Thinking (Te) ******************** (20.1)
limited use
introverted Thinking (Ti) ***************************** (29)
average use
extraverted Feeling (Fe) *************************** (27.2)
average use
introverted Feeling (Fi) ********************************************* (45.4)
excellent use

---------------------------------------------

extraverted Sensing (Se) ********************************** (34.5)
good use
introverted Sensing (Si) ******************** (20.1)
limited use
extraverted Intuiting (Ne) ************************************* (37.6)
excellent use
introverted Intuiting (Ni) *************************************** (39.6)
excellent use
extraverted Thinking (Te) ************** (14.2)
unused
introverted Thinking (Ti) ****************************** (30.4)
good use
extraverted Feeling (Fe) ************************ (24.5)
average use
introverted Feeling (Fi) *************************************** (39.7)
excellent use


-------------------------------------

Cognitive Process Level of Development (Preference, Skill and Frequency of Use)
extraverted Sensing (Se) ****************************** (30.5)
good use
introverted Sensing (Si) ********************** (22.4)
limited use
extraverted Intuiting (Ne) ********************************** (34.7)
good use
introverted Intuiting (Ni) *************************************** (39.7)
excellent use
extraverted Thinking (Te) ******************* (19.5)
limited use
introverted Thinking (Ti) *************************** (27.5)
average use
extraverted Feeling (Fe) *************************** (27.6)
average use
introverted Feeling (Fi) ************************************** (38.7)
excellent use

--------------------------

Cognitive Process Level of Development (Preference, Skill and Frequency of Use)
extraverted Sensing (Se) *********************** (23.8)
limited use
introverted Sensing (Si) ********************* (21.9)
limited use
extraverted Intuiting (Ne) ****************************************** (42.3)
excellent use
introverted Intuiting (Ni) *************************************** (39.3)
excellent use
extraverted Thinking (Te) ***************** (17.9)
limited use
introverted Thinking (Ti) ****************************** (30)
average use
extraverted Feeling (Fe) ********************************* (33.3)
good use
introverted Feeling (Fi) ******************************** (32.1)
good use

-----------------------------------------------


And last time I took the Big 45 test

Big 45 Test Results

Gregariousness |||||| 18%
Sociability ||||||||||||||| 50%
Assertiveness |||||||||||| 38%
Poise ||||||||||||||| 46%
Leadership |||||||||||| 34%
Provocativeness ||||||||||||||| 42%
Self-Disclosure |||||||||||| 38%
Talkativeness ||||||||| 22%
Group Attachment ||||||||||||||| 42%
Extroversion |||||||||||| 36%
Understanding ||||||||||||||||||||| 66%
Warmth |||||||||||||||||| 54%
Morality ||||||||||||||||||||| 70%
Pleasantness |||||||||||||||||| 58%
Empathy |||||||||||||||||||||||||||| 86%
Cooperation |||||||||||||||||||||||||||| 82%
Sympathy |||||||||||||||||| 58%
Tenderness |||||||||||||||||| 54%
Nurturance |||||||||||| 38%
Accommodation ||||||||||||||||||||| 62%
Conscientiousness ||||||||||||||||||||| 70%
Efficiency ||||||||||||||| 42%
Dutifulness |||||||||||||||||| 58%
Purposefulness ||||||||||||||| 50%
Organization |||||||||||||||||| 58%
Cautiousness ||||||||||||||| 46%
Rationality ||||||||||||||| 46%
Perfectionism |||||||||||| 38%
Planning ||||||||||||||| 42%
Orderliness ||||||||||||||| 50%
Stability ||||||||||||||| 46%
Happiness |||||||||||||||||| 54%
Calmness ||||||||||||||| 46%
Moderation |||||||||||||||||| 54%
Toughness ||||||||||||||||||||| 62%
Impulse Control ||||||||||||||||||||| 66%
Imperturbability |||||||||||| 34%
Cool-headedness ||||||||||||||||||||| 66%
Tranquility |||||| 18%
Emotional Stability ||||||||||||||| 49%
Intellect ||||||||||||||||||||| 62%
Ingenuity |||||||||||||||||| 58%
Reflection |||||||||||||||||||||||||||| 82%
Competence |||||||||||||||||||||||| 74%
Quickness |||||||||||||||||||||||| 74%
Introspection ||||||||||||||||||||| 66%
Creativity |||||||||||||||||| 58%
Imagination |||||||||||||||||||||||| 78%
Depth |||||||||||||||||||||||||||| 86%
Openmindedness ||||||||||||||||||||| 70%

-------------------------

Brain dominance stuff

You are an Analytical Visionary
You know how to mix the "how" and the "why."

- I don't know how to get the picture/graph copied in here, but supposedly I used BOTH Right brain abstract and Left brain abstract as primaries, use Left Brain Concrete as secondary, and Right brain concrete was something I avoided.

[Tallulah]

I'm not an expert on the functions, but my impression is maybe INFJ is your closest fit--you don't seem INFP to me, but you're definitely an introverted feeler, and definitely an intuitive. My experience is that INFJs are a fairly complex bunch, and one won't always look so much like another. It looks like you use both Ni and Ne pretty strongly, so maybe that's what has you questioning?

[Mondo]

I'm not surprised to see that your Ni is stronger than your Ne AND your Fi is stronger than your Fe, that indicates strong Introversion.

Question.. how would you consider yourself a conscientious person?

[cascademn]

I'm not an expert on the functions, but my impression is maybe INFJ is your closest fit--you don't seem INFP to me, but you're definitely an introverted feeler, and definitely an intuitive. My experience is that INFJs are a fairly complex bunch, and one won't always look so much like another. It looks like you use both Ni and Ne pretty strongly, so maybe that's what has you questioning?

Oh, I guess there are a lot of things that have gotten me to question it, but yeah, Ne is one - esp. combined with Ti. Actually NTP's make a lot more sense to me than many others on this board, even those that are of my own 'type'. :blush: I find myself agreeing with and following their thought processes/words pretty easily.

I also find what seems to be quite a lack of Fe, based on the cog. function test, pretty interesting. And that makes me wonder. But perhaps it can tie back to my being extremely introverted, and the fact that often-times I don't want to deal with people at ALL. One of the things I most dislike at a job is having to train/monitor people (even if it is 1:1), and anything to do with the phone. And that makes me think I can't possibly have Fe-leanings. And then that dichotomy between what I externally do, vs. internally my sometimes not feeling like doing it, makes me feel, well, fake. So....I don't know.

The irony is that time and time again, in work reviews, my greatest strength is cited as verbal and written communication skills, adjusting content and style to the specific audience, and people skills. One coworker wrote: "Her relationship building abilities is the foundation she uses to make her successful in everything she does at work." I find that truly ironic because I DO dislike the training/mentoring thing. I'd rather be on my own, or working on a team but not 'expected' to be in an leadership role -- just piping in with my comments.

So, interaction styles. I really don't see myself as being a 'Chart-the-course' person. But I guess those who know me in person, and know my communication style 1:1, would be more objective in determining that??

I'm not surprised to see that your Ni is stronger than your Ne AND your Fi is stronger than your Fe, that indicates strong Introversion.

Question.. how would you consider yourself a conscientious person?

It's these sorts of cognitive things -- both Ni and Fi being high -- that makes mbti fall apart to me. I mean, I recognize it's a framework, and everyone supposedly falls into one of 16 general categories or 'approaches', but when someone is battling it out between two introverted functions, and they may hold equal weight, then the utility of attaching yourself to one of 16 just doesn't seem to hold. Ah well.

Anyway - conscientiousness. I guess I feel that I am pretty 'on top of' everything in my life (even my procrastinations - I'm still aware they're there and need to be addressed at some point), in terms of practical matters as well as extending into how my actions (or inactions) impact people/things/events. I equate conscientiousness with awareness and being observant. I'm not usually surprised. Even 'surprises' are things that I had filtered away as possibilities. I guess I'm not caught off guard that often?

[Randomnity]

I've never doubted your type before, and I don't know you very well, but on a purely function basis, with such high Se and Fi (and especially with such low Fe and Te), you could be ISFP. I think ISFPs are supposed to have Fi-Se-Ni-Te, so it could be a strong "tertiary" coming out. And ISFPs are behind-the-scenes interaction style, if I remember, which is fairly different from chart-the-course. Of course, you could also just be an atypical INFJ.

I think my own function order is Ti-Ni, so I can understand where you're coming from here. I also have problems accepting the MBTI function order as a black and white system. :)

[entropie]

I have not read most of the thread, cause it is very hot in here and that PC monitor makes my head ache.

I read your test results from cognitive processes and first of all, compliment to your idea to take it different times. That obvious idea has not come to me thus far xD.

You see iNFj are the most unlinkely people who need some test to tell them who people are and what they can do and can not do. That fixation of things in itself would destroy the very nature of an iNFj, cause from now on we can relate to stupid tests and know everything what people are. It is one of the main strength of an iNFj to know what people really are, as it is sometimes with eNTp (not that insightful though). What is not one of the main strengths of iNFj is they themselves. The day on which they are able to tell, I know who I am, is probablly going to be their dieing day, cause from now on their is nothing more to search for. That does not mean other people do know by nature who they are, it means some people dont care at all who they are, some care until a certain point. But iNFJ, like a professor in quantumdynamics, sees constant change in behaviours in himself and evaluates and reevaluates even longtime proven grounds. There are few things in the human soul, iNFj settle with and that are mostly basically needed things to survive.

So what does he know ? My very special one is iNFJ and it is said that eNTp and INFJ make good couples. Guess that is yet to be found out, cause I havent "coupled" with her so far *hihi* xD. (This bad joke is better understood, if I say with coupling I meant to shift gears manually in cars and well she is not a car and... u know xD).

After some nagging from my side, my special one took the cognitive processes test aswell and she scored like you with a preference on Introverted Feeling. I dont know if that means something, but it fits a theisis of mine: My SO is definitly an Extraverted Feeler like me. She says "I am pleased to meet you" and "thank you" and "I like you" everytime she feels like it. But she has their own unique way of understanding of people, to judge if it is earned or not. Introverted Feeling means that for example step up in a situation for someone, who has been treaten unfairly. And you knock the "treater" out, although you are not really in control of what you are feeling. So my thesis is, the preference for Introverted Feeling is a natural security wall for the rest of the world, cause one wants his own feelings to not be compromised.

And that I understand, too.

Concerning MBTI you are : Introverted Intuition and Extraverted Feeler
I am: Extraverted Intuition and Introverted Thinking

Scored this on cognitiveprocesses:

Cognitive Process Level of Development (Preference, Skill and Frequency of Use)
extraverted Sensing (Se) ********************************* (33.6)
good use
introverted Sensing (Si) *************** (15)
unused
extraverted Intuiting (Ne) ********************************* (33.8)
good use
introverted Intuiting (Ni) ******************************** (32.1)
good use
extraverted Thinking (Te) ***************************** (29.1)
average use
introverted Thinking (Ti) ************************************** (38.3)
excellent use
extraverted Feeling (Fe) **************************** (28)
average use
introverted Feeling (Fi) ****************************** (30.1)
good use

[cascademn]

I've never doubted your type before, and I don't know you very well, but on a purely function basis, with such high Se and Fi (and especially with such low Fe and Te), you could be ISFP. I think ISFPs are supposed to have Fi-Se-Ni-Te, so it could be a strong "tertiary" coming out. And ISFPs are behind-the-scenes interaction style, if I remember, which is fairly different from chart-the-course. Of course, you could also just be an atypical INFJ.

I have entertained the notion of ISFP, and I think it could have fit me as a young child. In some ways I think I was IxFP moreso than INxJ as a child. But I think in my teen years and now, I'd be an equally atypical ISFP. haha. :-) [But I also wonder how much ones' IQ can impact/blur 'typical-ness' of a type. I know that's a bad topic to bring up on these boards, but I do wonder.]

I think my own function order is Ti-Ni, so I can understand where you're coming from here. I also having problems accepting the MBTI function order as a black and white system. :)

I'm glad someone can understand where I'm coming from! Phew! :smile:

[cascademn]

I read your test results from cognitive processes and first of all, compliment to your idea to take it different times. That obvious idea has not come to me thus far xD.

haha, thanks. ;)

You see iNFj are the most unlinkely people who need some test to tell them who people are and what they can do and can not do. That fixation of things in itself would destroy the very nature of an iNFj, cause from now on we can relate to stupid tests and know everything what people are. It is one of the main strength of an iNFj to know what people really are, as it is sometimes with eNTp (not that insightful though). What is not one of the main strengths of iNFj is they themselves. The day on which they are able to tell, I know who I am, is probablly going to be their dieing day, cause from now on their is nothing more to search for. That does not mean other people do know by nature who they are, it means some people dont care at all who they are, some care until a certain point. But iNFJ, like a professor in quantumdynamics, sees constant change in behaviours in himself and evaluates and reevaluates even longtime proven grounds. There are few things in the human soul, iNFj settle with and that are mostly basically needed things to survive.

I think you raise a good point here. I do notice change in behavior and am pretty aware of my internal state and motivations and feelings - perhaps too much in tune. And, it may be true that I notice what I consider to be 'vast' changes in myself, or inconsistencies, and have trouble reconciling all of it, whereas outsiders might easily grasp my true nature without any trouble at all.

And I think you're onto something about the need to search and grow. When I start feeling sedentary and 'stagnant', I need to do something about it. (Knowing WHAT to do is another story and might take a while ;-)

[spirilis]

To add mystery to the madness, I believe there is a distinct difference between our "typological preferential" use of the functions and our "skill level" of the functions. I believe our skill level is measured by the Cognitive Processes test, our "type preference" is imperfectly measured by MBTI tests and the like. I'd expect to see one's skill level in a particular function high if it's their dominant or auxiliary though. But life experience may have us gain skill in other functions moreso.

Then again I'm one of those crazies who believes deep down that everyone has a "root" type, it just might not be evident to them, especially later on when they've become a more complex person.

[Randomnity]

I have entertained the notion of ISFP, and I think it could have fit me as a young child. In some ways I think I was IxFP moreso than INxJ as a child. But I think in my teen years and now, I'd be an equally atypical ISFP. haha. :-) [But I also wonder how much ones' IQ can impact/blur 'typical-ness' of a type. I know that's a bad topic to bring up on these boards, but I do wonder.]
I'm glad someone can understand where I'm coming from! Phew! :smile:
Fair enough - and you do seem more like an INFJ, honestly, though it'd be easier to tell in RL. Just thought I'd point out another random possibility, since you were wondering.

To add mystery to the madness, I believe there is a distinct difference between our "typological preferential" use of the functions and our "skill level" of the functions. I believe our skill level is measured by the Cognitive Processes test, our "type preference" is imperfectly measured by MBTI tests and the like. I'd expect to see one's skill level in a particular function high if it's their dominant or auxiliary though. But life experience may have us gain skill in other functions moreso.

I agree with this. That test always gave me weird results (something like Ti-Ni-Ne-something something - Fe- Fi).

[cascademn]

Fair enough - and you do seem more like an INFJ, honestly, though it'd be easier to tell in RL. Just thought I'd point out another random possibility, since you were wondering.

I really do appreciate and respect your input, so thank you. I agree real-life would be easier, and probably more obvious.

And yeah, the parts of myself that are more like ISFP profiles are my love of nature, animals, the outdoors, photography, painting, beauty, and aesthetics. However, none of that really gets to the meat of how an ISFP operates and approaches the world, so what I just listed is pretty superficial and probably stereotyping the ISFP.

As a child my mother described me as 'super sensitive' (which I was). I think I was pretty aware of my surroundings, and never got in trouble in class for daydreaming or anything -- that's the only thing that seems to counter Ni being my dominant function -- at least as it is described for characteristics of children. I was a good student and never got into trouble, basically. ;-) I enjoyed the art projects the most in grade school, and for actual courses, also enjoyed math and science.

[Wolf]

Your test result seems reasonable.

I've thought for a while that most of us with an intuitive function preference are forced by our lives/environments to take up and develop functions more in line with sensors than they are to develop functions more in line with us. We have to play like we're sensors for their benefit because they have a harder time with us than we do with them.

[tovlo]

Well, I've already information dumped on you in a different venue, but I was inspired to comment on a couple things here. I hope you don't mind.

Actually NTP's make a lot more sense to me than many others on this board, even those that are of my own 'type'. :blush: I find myself agreeing with and following their thought processes/words pretty easily.

That describes my experience as well...at least on surface. In closer interaction (with an INTP), I found there were many times disconnect when I demonstrated a lack of respect for the confines of logic, instead choosing to follow where my compassion led. To the one I was closely aligned with that illogical compassion was ultimately viewed as unproductive "bleeding heart" even if my compassionate nature was generally valued. I don't know if you've had close enough interaction to know if this is true for you or not, but I'd be interested in your longer term NTP interaction.

I also find what seems to be quite a lack of Fe, based on the cog. function test, pretty interesting. And that makes me wonder.

I agree with the comment in this thread about the natural function ordering being different from skill level or use of the functions which is what the cog. function test seems to measure. If you are INFJ than it is possible that you have an Ni/Fe ordering, but have lesser current use of or awareness of your engagement with Fe. I've seen numerous displays from you of respect for your social environment and engagement with it in order to productively interact and make decisions.

But perhaps it can tie back to my being extremely introverted, and the fact that often-times I don't want to deal with people at ALL. One of the things I most dislike at a job is having to train/monitor people (even if it is 1:1), and anything to do with the phone. And that makes me think I can't possibly have Fe-leanings.

I feel similarly about dealing with people, training/monitoring, and the phone. I see that as about introversion and not Fe. If you are introverted (and everything I've seen of you leads me to believe you are), then your auxillary function has to be one of the extroverted functions no matter how low it may be.

I do see though that if you were dominate Fi, then your high Ne score might seem to make more sense as auxillary than dominate Ni with such a low Fe, but again, I don't think the coginitive functions test measures your natural ordering, but rather your current awareness and estimation of skill with the function. I also tend to think you underestimate your skill with Fe.

The irony is that time and time again, in work reviews, my greatest strength is cited as verbal and written communication skills, adjusting content and style to the specific audience, and people skills. One coworker wrote: "Her relationship building abilities is the foundation she uses to make her successful in everything she does at work." I find that truly ironic because I DO dislike the training/mentoring thing. I'd rather be on my own, or working on a team but not 'expected' to be in an leadership role -- just piping in with my comments.

That sounds very INFJ to me. 1) Strong communication skills, 2) adjusting content and style to the specific audience, 3)relationship building being the foundation of success, 4)preferring to be on your own or a part of team and not in leadership, but finding yourself rising into positions of responsibility due to your work style all the same.

So, interaction styles. I really don't see myself as being a 'Chart-the-course' person. But I guess those who know me in person, and know my communication style 1:1, would be more objective in determining that??

I feel I'm more behind the scenes. My understanding is that types have certain tendencies to be one style of communicator or another, but there is no strict correlation. It just leans you toward one group of types or another.

I once sat and listened to old voice mails I'd left for someone over various periods of time with them, both of us trying to determine if my communication in each one was more informing or directing. There was much of both types of communication, but informing had the edge. I do know that internally I have a drive toward completion, yet that is tempered by a stronger desire not to tell people what to do and for their actions to be the result of their own decision and not a reaction to my direction. So I might be at core a chart-the-course with a tempering of desiring to respect people's autonomy.

Basically I don't think informing/directing is an easy style to identify at all.

It's these sorts of cognitive things -- both Ni and Fi being high -- that makes mbti fall apart to me.

I went through each of your cognitive function test results laying out your functions into the type it would indicate assuming the dominate function would be your highest introverted function (I have little to no doubt you are introverted) and then following that with the highest extraverted function that would be opposite (eg, if your highest introverted function was perception, I'd place the highest extraverted judging function as auxillary). You came up 3 times as INFJ and 2 as INFP.

Basically useless information for making a decision, but thought I'd share it anyway. :)

I mean, I recognize it's a framework, and everyone supposedly falls into one of 16 general categories or 'approaches', but when someone is battling it out between two introverted functions, and they may hold equal weight, then the utility of attaching yourself to one of 16 just doesn't seem to hold. Ah well.

I had to come to terms with the "best fit" idea in order to finally make peace with my type. I don't look like many other INFJ's. I resonate with many parts of other type's descriptions and often don't resonate with parts of INFJ descriptions. For a long time I rejected the idea I could be INFJ, accepting what tests and others told me I must be. However, in the end I realized my "best fit" was INFJ...even if it wasn't a perfect fit, it was closer than any of the others.

I tend to think of you as INFJ and think there is much to support that. I also recognize that at least by cognitive test results and your own self-assessment you seem to feel INFP might be a good fit. I accepted for a long time I was INFP in part because others were convinced I was, and yet I never felt sure. When I finally accepted I was INFJ it was the first time I felt sure and no amount of questioning of my type since has really shaken that. Perhaps you'll find that place of surety as INFP or as INFJ or something entirely different, but I do hope you find that place where you feel secure in your "best fit" and make peace with the spaces where the label is not a perfect fit, but your expression of self is perfectly you.

[cascademn]

Well, I've already information dumped on you in a different venue, but I was inspired to comment on a couple things here. I hope you don't mind.

Oh, I don't mind at all! It's very helpful, whatever information/insights you and others might have. I'm always curious how I come across to others, and much of the time I think I'm utterly oblivious to how I come across. And...you know me better than most!!!! :-)

That describes my experience as well...at least on surface. In closer interaction (with an INTP), I found there were many times disconnect when I demonstrated a lack of respect for the confines of logic, instead choosing to follow where my compassion led. To the one I was closely aligned with that illogical compassion was ultimately viewed as unproductive "bleeding heart" even if my compassionate nature was generally valued. I don't know if you've had close enough interaction to know if this is true for you or not, but I'd be interested in your longer term NTP interaction.

I have not had close enough interaction with NTP's, so have not gotten to the point where larger gaps could surface. It's just on a purely intellectual level, on these boards, that I can relate/appreciate/understand, and if I detach myself to analyze a situation from a logical perspective, the NTP's are my voice. :-)


I agree with the comment in this thread about the natural function ordering being different from skill level or use of the functions which is what the cog. function test seems to measure. If you are INFJ than it is possible that you have an Ni/Fe ordering, but have lesser current use of or awareness of your engagement with Fe. I've seen numerous displays from you of respect for your social environment and engagement with it in order to productively interact and make decisions.

Interesting. It's highly possible I'm unaware of my use of Fe. Do you think there are aspects of Fe that I use, and other aspects that I reject?? With regards to the cognitive functions test, I know Fe came low, because I don't feel that I take other peoples' problems on as my own (I tend to maintain a distinction between myself and my needs, and the other person), and I'm not one to go out of my way to socialize or attend to everyone in a group. I'm also a pretty pitiful hostess/caretaker. It's just not something I do. But I see that more as an extroverted role anyway. So there's that.

I feel similarly about dealing with people, training/monitoring, and the phone. I see that as about introversion and not Fe. If you are introverted (and everything I've seen of you leads me to believe you are), then your auxillary function has to be one of the extroverted functions no matter how low it may be.

Yes, I think my introvertedness is the one thing that is absolutely solid about me. :yes:


I do see though that if you were dominate Fi, then your high Ne score might seem to make more sense as auxillary than dominate Ni with such a low Fe, but again, I don't think the coginitive functions test measures your natural ordering, but rather your current awareness and estimation of skill with the function. I also tend to think you underestimate your skill with Fe.

Well, my comment above kind of ties to this as well. I probably underestimate several things.

Maybe my confusion with Fe as auxillary (or any of the functions, really) is that I don't really understand it. haha. I don't really know what the hell I'm doing when I'm extroverting stuff out. :)I'm just talking/sharing/interacting. I don't know. I also don't really know what I'm doing inside my head when I'm thinking or contemplating...in terms of deconstructing my thought processes into cognitive functions, that is. It's hard for me to deconstruct myself, so I guess that's why I end up needing to seek input from others.

That sounds very INFJ to me. 1) Strong communication skills, 2) adjusting content and style to the specific audience, 3)relationship building being the foundation of success, 4)preferring to be on your own or a part of team and not in leadership, but finding yourself rising into positions of responsibility due to your work style all the same.

Yes, I don't know why people look to me or want to put me in leadership roles, when I hate leading, I'm quiet, and I'd rather not bother with any of that. *sigh* ;-)

One and two have always been strengths of mine, I think. However, three is somewhat recent, as from junior high up til the start of college I didn't know how to build relationships. For all intents and purposes I was completely on my own, without any friends to speak of or any group that I was a part of. In a sense, it is learned, possibly mostly through observation.

I feel I'm more behind the scenes. My understanding is that types have certain tendencies to be one style of communicator or another, but there is no strict correlation. It just leans you toward one group of types or another.

I once sat and listened to old voice mails I'd left for someone over various periods of time with them, both of us trying to determine if my communication in each one was more informing or directing. There was much of both types of communication, but informing had the edge. I do know that internally I have a drive toward completion, yet that is tempered by a stronger desire not to tell people what to do and for their actions to be the result of their own decision and not a reaction to my direction. So I might be at core a chart-the-course with a tempering of desiring to respect people's autonomy.

Basically I don't think informing/directing is an easy style to identify at all.

Oh good, I feel better!!! :) I tend to think I'm more behind-the-scenes as well, as I really don't like telling people what to do, I can't relate to the chart-the-course descriptions as they describe people in the workforce, and I prefer just giving input. I never presume to know what's best for another person -- and am very hesitant to give advice. The advice I do give would be more generic, as what I need/want/would do is totally different from what another person might need/want/do, so I don't feel I'm in any position to direct/tell them what to do.

I went through each of your cognitive function test results laying out your functions into the type it would indicate assuming the dominate function would be your highest introverted function (I have little to no doubt you are introverted) and then following that with the highest extraverted function that would be opposite (eg, if your highest introverted function was perception, I'd place the highest extraverted judging function as auxillary). You came up 3 times as INFJ and 2 as INFP.

Basically useless information for making a decision, but thought I'd share it anyway. :)

:)

I had to come to terms with the "best fit" idea in order to finally make peace with my type. I don't look like many other INFJ's. I resonate with many parts of other type's descriptions and often don't resonate with parts of INFJ descriptions. For a long time I rejected the idea I could be INFJ, accepting what tests and others told me I must be. However, in the end I realized my "best fit" was INFJ...even if it wasn't a perfect fit, it was closer than any of the others.

For quite some time I thought INFJ was my 'best fit', but as you know I've been questioning it for several weeks. Well, I've never been entirely certain, but recently I've *really* been questioning it.

I tend to think of you as INFJ and think there is much to support that. I also recognize that at least by cognitive test results and your own self-assessment you seem to feel INFP might be a good fit. I accepted for a long time I was INFP in part because others were convinced I was, and yet I never felt sure. When I finally accepted I was INFJ it was the first time I felt sure and no amount of questioning of my type since has really shaken that. Perhaps you'll find that place of surety as INFP or as INFJ or something entirely different, but I do hope you find that place where you feel secure in your "best fit" and make peace with the spaces where the label is not a perfect fit, but your expression of self is perfectly you.

Thanks. :hug: I hope so too.

And your final sentence is the best: 'expression of self that is perfectly you.'

I think that is what makes me most uncomfortable about mbti. That I don't feel my full expression of self fits well into anything. BUT I think there's more I could explore, and I'm sure I'm overlooking some obvious things that when I figure it out/reach resolution will make it all clear.

Now time to begin reading The Fall of Hyperion.:nerd: Logging off for the night!

[htb]

One coworker wrote: "Her relationship building abilities is the foundation she uses to make her successful in everything she does at work." I find that truly ironic because I DO dislike the training/mentoring thing. I'd rather be on my own, or working on a team but not 'expected' to be in an leadership role -- just piping in with my comments.Pay more attention to observations from eyewitnesses of your daily behavior and less attention to cognitive function theories. What your coworker describes fits INFJs and ISFJs fairly well; while it excludes many types. I imagine that these two kinds of people, if not professionally dedicated to human relations and specific interpersonal abilities, may not welcome constant use of talents -- heightened or not.

[tovlo]

BUT I think there's more I could explore, and I'm sure I'm overlooking some obvious things that when I figure it out/reach resolution will make it all clear.

=Ni

It's hard for me to deconstruct myself, so I guess that's why I end up needing to seek input from others.

=Fe

I see INFJ. ;)

[Eileen]

I'm not surprised to see that your Ni is stronger than your Ne AND your Fi is stronger than your Fe, that indicates strong Introversion.


I believe that the last time I took that test, my Ni > Ne and Fi > Fe as well--and I am really very introverted myself. And, for better or worse, people tend to bring up my name when discussing "obvious INFJs."

[cascademn]

Pay more attention to observations from eyewitnesses of your daily behavior and less attention to cognitive function theories. What your coworker describes fits INFJs and ISFJs fairly well; while it excludes many types. I imagine that these two kinds of people, if not professionally dedicated to human relations and specific interpersonal abilities, may not welcome constant use of talents -- heightened or not.

Good point. This is a reason I enjoy getting feedback from others.

tovlo -- so that's Ni huh?? As for what you mentioned as Fe, really? Simply seeking input from others is Fe in nature? Huh.

So....it sounds like most people think I'm INFJ at this point. Externally, aside from my thought that I still probably play around with Ne or other external functions as much as Fe, it does make sense -- at least given how I interact at work and in life in general.

BUT. ;) My only final concern (um, unless I think of another one!!) is one of motivation. And that's where I feel there might be a disconnect between how I choose/want to be as a person and treat others, and my actual thoughts at times (not always - just sometimes). I think I view people very subjectively, and also view the world through a subjective lens of sorts, but I can also be pretty harsh inside, I think. I question whether I've 'become Fe' due to where my philosophical musings took me, and what I concluded from them, I guess. I question whether I reached this point from a thinking perspective, maybe?? But others can be the judge - perhaps the below is a 'typical' angsty rant of an INFJ. :) It's a bit weird sharing the below since I don't tend to approach things/judge things quite in this light anymore, but I thought it could show a little personality snapshot. One of my big things is accountability for ones choices/actions.

An example of what I wrote about 4 years ago --

**Everyone stop reading now if you don't want to get into a long, long-winded spiel/rant (erm..more long-winded than I write these days?? :shock::doh:) And my apologies to anyone who will be offended by the 2nd paragraph..I'm not being terribly empathetic in it....

---------------------
...However, the problem is that when this attitude arises - this attitude of not accepting any responsibility for ones own piece of the puzzle, and blaming one of the other pieces - society molds itself around this attitude. The lawsuits, the rules, the red tape, the bureaucracy. It's always someone elses fault, and again, people want to take the easy way out; the way that requires the least amount of effort on their part. People don't have any thoughts or opinions of their own, but rather they take on, as their own, the thoughts and opinions of others. Now, it is perfectly fine to agree with others, and to find others who share the same thoughts and feelings as yourself. But it is not perfectly fine to have thoughts and opinions that you have no reason for having, other than the fact that someone else - some authority figure - has them, which means that they are valid and right. If you did not at some point question why you agree with so and so, or why you believe that so and so is right, and independently, out of your own critical thinking, reach the same conclusion, then you have no basis for your thoughts, and they are meaningless. So am I angry at those who do not think and are not independent? Yes. Do I recognize that a good percentage of people are not intelligent enough to understand all of this and they don't even know that they are doing this (not thinking)? Yes. Do I realize that it is a complicated world and many people have many more daily struggles of survival than I? Yes. But these people are often the same ones who do not take any responsibility for their own actions. These are the people who prefer to let someone or something else take care of them. These are the people who expect something/someone outside of themselves to fix things. It is a circle. The people feed off of the books and news stories and tv shows, they come to accept these things and believe in them, and because they accept and believe and don't question, there is a demand for more of it, and it continues on, and our culture becomes more silly, irrational, dependent, and lacking its own judgement. But how did I get here? Well, it's something that can't be resolved - I'm angry at the masses because they don't think, but this anger is not true anger, as I also know (or don't see how) it could never be anything different from this. I think this is humanity, and the majority of people are not going to think, for many possible reasons. And the majority of people do not believe in personal accountability; in other words, they do not recognize their responsibility in any given situation. I am angry at this, and this is inexcusable for all of these people to be like this, but I think this is how it is. - 06/24/2004

The above is what I believe. It is inexcusable for people not to think, and for people not to take responsibility for their actions. It is inexcusable for people to make excuses. That said, there is a segment of the population that is, mentally, helpless. I am not speaking of these individuals - those who are still children (by age only; those who are still unaware of much, and can be easily molded), and those who are mentally handicapped, whether from birth or through old age. Adults who manipulate and take advantage of this naievity because they know they can are moral wretches. The young and elderly are easy victims, and anyone who takes advantage of the truly helpless is utterly in the wrong. This is an absolute. [Tangent: This also could be the introduction to a discussion on education and environment - exactly what are the young being taught to regard as the truth? The fields of study with the most drastic implication for being taught incorrectly, or untruthfully, are history and science...ironically, even current events. And unfortunately - but something which is to be expected - religion for a vast number of people is elevated higher than education. Religion is stated as absolute, and fields such as science and history are considered relative.] By the time one is an adult (I will not debate what this age is, because this is a matter of opinion, and of culture), one moves beyond the point where he can use excuses in his life. He is fully responsible for his actions and reactions, and the chain reaction that happens as a result of every action, and he must accept the results, because he helped bring them about. And of course, there are certain things that could happen to someone where he played no role in bringing it about, such as another apartment tenant leaving a candle burning and causing the entire building to burn to the ground, or natural disasters, etc etc. But I'm speaking of everything that does not involve this carelessness by someone else, mindless destruction, or randomness. If that particular adult refuses to see or accept his responsibility, and instead blames things on his past, or on his parents, or on his colleagues, or on his inept decisions, or on the devil, or on God, or on whomever he feels has caused him injustice, then he is still a child and will not easily receive respect from me. I'm speaking of situations that directly impact a person's life. Situations outside of a person's capacity to change or impact cannot be blamed on that individual, as such. World and national politics and the specific decisions that are made by those in power are completely outside of most people's hands, and these people therefore have the right to complain, and protest, and demand changes and improvements, if they disagree. And to not complain or demand, if given the opportunity, would be a denial, and would be hypocritical and inexcusable, and that person would then have no right to voice any opinion on the matter in the future. The other issue, which I alluded to earlier, is that our society has become so backwards that I don't see how it would be conceivable to get it fixed. Because it is so backwards, there are a lot of "people problems" that are getting worse. But back to accountability. I will give a few examples, and let it be known that I do believe there is a very small percentage of the population that have mental illnesses or addictions that are a result of genetic makeup, and this very small percentage should be on medication to manage their disposition. Example 1. The huge numbers of overweight people in the US. They will blame the diet fads that don't work, the fact that they're pre-disposed, genetically, to weight gain and that it's not fair that skinny people don't have this problem, the fact that they don't have time to exercise, the fact that restaurants serve unhealthy food, the fact that weight has always been an issue and they can't keep it off, etc. But these same people don't watch what they eat, they cave in and have a late night snack, they skimp on exercising, they purchase junk food, they eat out several times a week, and they live for short term results. They have no discipline, and they aren't willing to change their lifestyle. Example 2. There are so many personality "disorders" out there now that people are given prescriptions for. This is just a theory, but I think a very plausible one. It is much more comforting to believe one has some sort of disorder that isn't one's fault and which is magically the reason for all of one's problems, rather than going through the extremely lengthy, painful, and difficult process of becoming aware of yourself and your personality, making lifestyle adjustments to better cope with it, and really digging into your problems to find the reason behind them and dealing with your emotions and issues firsthand. - 6/25/2004.

...................

I just re-read this entire page, and while I am still in agreement with everything I wrote, it's still a little bit scary to read postings that are filled with anger and bitterness. But I think these are valid emotions, and it's healthy to deal with them and accept them for what they are...it's just not healthy to continue in those states indefinitely. Life truly is a journey, and a bumpy one at that. And all of my writing is testament to this fact -- that life is an evolution of thoughts and feelings, and growth as an individual is of utmost importance, and utmost necessity (for me). I never want to stop growing, because it is when I stop growing that I begin to despair. Movement is critical; without movement, my spirit suffers. - 08/19/2004

[spirilis]

(read most of the post)

All I see is a continual interplay of Ni -- reducing tons of your own thoughts to truths about what's really happening, and adding that society/other-people-oriented bend of Fe to it all (e.g., begging the question "why are these people laying such disservice to society with <insert Ni-inspired reason here>?")

And the mood of the content sounds like the fiery cauldron of an Idealist.

[cascademn]

(read most of the post)

All I see is a continual interplay of Ni -- reducing tons of your own thoughts to truths about what's really happening, and adding that society/other-people-oriented bend of Fe to it all (e.g., begging the question "why are these people laying such disservice to society with <insert Ni-inspired reason here>?")

And the mood of the content sounds like the fiery cauldron of an Idealist.

Awesome. Thanks so much for your input!!:hug:

Really, that helps a lot. It's one of the main things that's been perplexing me about being an NF. Just all of those profiles and such make it sound like we're a bunch of saints, and I don't feel that way about myself at all. I think I can be rather mean (at least inwardly), unempathetic, and pretty selfish at times (not that selfishness is in and of itself a bad thing), and it's something that alarms me and that I can't really reconcile with all the warm fuzzies and alwaying-wanting-to-help vibes that I get from profiles and general stereotypes.

Fiery cauldron. hehe.:devil:

[htb]

Good eye, Spirilis.

Yes, it's introverted intuition; I've written this stuff before.

[spirilis]

Awesome. Thanks so much for your input!!:hug:

Really, that helps a lot. It's one of the main things that's been perplexing me about being an NF. Just all of those profiles and such make it sound like we're a bunch of saints, and I don't feel that way about myself at all. I think I can be rather mean (at least inwardly), unempathetic, and pretty selfish at times (not that selfishness is in and of itself a bad thing), and it's something that alarms me and that I can't really reconcile with all the warm fuzzies and alwaying-wanting-to-help vibes that I get from profiles and general stereotypes.

Fiery cauldron. hehe.:devil:

The profiles are stereotypes meant to help some segment of the population identify whether they might be a type or not, but everyone is different and the external behaviors/interests of one person is significantly influenced by non-type-related factors for a lot of people. Take them with a grain, no a tablespoon, nah how about a dumptruck, aw screw that how about a whole SALT MINE full of salt? ;)

The real question is, do you see all that fire inside eventually turning into a massive well of hope and will to help others? Maybe it will become that at some point. Or maybe not. Who knows?

[cascademn]

Good eye, Spirilis.

Yes, it's introverted intuition; I've written this stuff before.

Fascinating. I'm oddly excited to have a concrete example of my own Ni in action. hehe. [and clearly it is very unoriginal Ni. ;)]

The profiles are stereotypes meant to help some segment of the population identify whether they might be a type or not, but everyone is different and the external behaviors/interests of one person is significantly influenced by non-type-related factors for a lot of people. Take them with a grain, no a tablespoon, nah how about a dumptruck, aw screw that how about a whole SALT MINE full of salt? ;)

Yeah, I've always known they're stereotypes, but the stereotypes in a sense become 'reality' and how the system is truly used and viewed, since the majority of people are only aware of those stereotypes. So they become the system, in a way. Even here on the boards. It's relatively easy to get caught up in it. :huh:

But you're absolutely correct.

And now that I have people confirming Ni as a dominant element of my writing (I wouldn't have known that's what it was), I am coming to a better understanding of what exactly it is.

The real question is, do you see all that fire inside eventually turning into a massive well of hope and will to help others? Maybe it will become that at some point. Or maybe not. Who knows?

Ah, THE question. This is rather an inspiring post you've left me with, spirilis. What indeed shall I decide to do with it?? :)

[spirilis]

Ah, THE question. This is rather an inspiring post you've left me with, spirilis. What indeed shall I decide to do with it?? :)

Use it to play arcade games and beat the crap out of everyone! :devil:

[sciski]

All I see is a continual interplay of Ni -- reducing tons of your own thoughts to truths about what's really happening,

How is this different to Ti though? I keep mixing the two up...

Erm, besides that one is a judging function and one is perceiving. Maybe I just answered my own question.

[spirilis]

How is this different to Ti though? I keep mixing the two up...

Erm, besides that one is a judging function and one is perceiving. Maybe I just answered my own question.

The difference is probably subtle in a lot of cases, but you summed it up.

The "Ni" impressions I'm getting are embodied by stuff like this:
The people feed off of the books and news stories and tv shows, they come to accept these things and believe in them,

She's stating a general trend--a "pattern" if you will, and putting it out there rather matter-of-fact like. She then follows through to apply judgment to it, but I don't get the hint that she's judging the validity of that statement--thus I see this as her own *perception* rather than judgment to question.

The judgment follows shortly:
and because they accept and believe and don't question, there is a demand for more of it, and it continues on, and our culture becomes more silly, irrational, dependent, and lacking its own judgement.
I see a little bit of T in there producing the sequence, but the root judgment at stake here is Fe-oriented, because (seeing the "forest from the trees" so to speak) she's taking to task the fact that the trend these folks have fallen upon is bad for society, using such relational words as "silly, irrational," etc. in the context of "culture," another word explicitly stated.

I think when performing functional analysis on peoples' writings it's important to concentrate more on analyzing the overall general message being portrayed, not necessarily the choice of words or method of presentation, but sometimes certain passages do reveal evidence of function usage pretty well. Makes for a fun mental exercise either way :)

A little trickier may be statements like this:
By the time one is an adult (I will not debate what this age is, because this is a matter of opinion, and of culture), one moves beyond the point where he can use excuses in his life.

Here I sense both Ni and Fe already combined into one distinct thought--the Ni impression is the fact that she's identifying a pattern embodied by a human being passing into adulthood, and she's further reinforcing the "patternistic" nature of this impression by stating that she'd rather not get into specifics, and then the second half of the statement she's casting an Fe judgment semi-disguised as an abstract action "one moves beyond the point".

Anyway, I should followup by providing some counter Ne/Ti examples but my mind just isn't there right now (after analyzing one set of functions it becomes kinda difficult to "shift gears" so to speak...)

[sciski]

Thanks for that Spirilis. I'm going to have to think about this a little more!

[cascademn]

The difference is probably subtle in a lot of cases, but you summed it up.

The "Ni" impressions I'm getting are embodied by stuff like this:


She's stating a general trend--a "pattern" if you will, and putting it out there rather matter-of-fact like. She then follows through to apply judgment to it, but I don't get the hint that she's judging the validity of that statement--thus I see this as her own *perception* rather than judgment to question.

The judgment follows shortly:

I see a little bit of T in there producing the sequence, but the root judgment at stake here is Fe-oriented, because (seeing the "forest from the trees" so to speak) she's taking to task the fact that the trend these folks have fallen upon is bad for society, using such relational words as "silly, irrational," etc. in the context of "culture," another word explicitly stated.

I think when performing functional analysis on peoples' writings it's important to concentrate more on analyzing the overall general message being portrayed, not necessarily the choice of words or method of presentation, but sometimes certain passages do reveal evidence of function usage pretty well. Makes for a fun mental exercise either way :)

A little trickier may be statements like this:


Here I sense both Ni and Fe already combined into one distinct thought--the Ni impression is the fact that she's identifying a pattern embodied by a human being passing into adulthood, and she's further reinforcing the "patternistic" nature of this impression by stating that she'd rather not get into specifics, and then the second half of the statement she's casting an Fe judgment semi-disguised as an abstract action "one moves beyond the point".

Anyway, I should followup by providing some counter Ne/Ti examples but my mind just isn't there right now (after analyzing one set of functions it becomes kinda difficult to "shift gears" so to speak...)

Wow. It's pretty weird having your writing deconstructed into cognitive functions. I feel rather un-human-like now. Just a sum of cognitive functions, at the mercy of analysis, like a lab rat. hehe.;)

Nah...that's fascinating. Thanks for doing that. :) I've learned quite a bit from this thread, so am glad I created it!!

[htb]

Fascinating. I'm oddly excited to have a concrete example of my own Ni in action. hehe. [and clearly it is very unoriginal Ni. ]Not to worry -- if one believes in absolute truth, originality outside of process isn't necessary.

Ni really is fascinating. As I once described, it's a highly efficient form of induction; possibly one that draws from the subconscious.

[htb]

Anyway, I should followup by providing some counter Ne/Ti examples but my mind just isn't there right now (after analyzing one set of functions it becomes kinda difficult to "shift gears" so to speak...)Ne, as I have witnessed its use, is a means of propagation -- generating variations of an idea, often with a minimum of consecutive association. Ti, of course, is deductive reasoning. Under this characterization, an INTP would consider multiple possibilities for a logical matrix; while an ENTP would rationally validate propositions.

[spirilis]

Ne, as I have witnessed its use, is a means of propagation -- generating variations of an idea, often with a minimum of consecutive association. Ti, of course, is deductive reasoning. Under this characterization, an INTP would consider multiple possibilities for a logical matrix; while an ENTP would rationally validate propositions.

Yeah. Another example of Ne I'm thinking of involves making lots of matter-of-fact statements about something without casting any explicit judgment, but there being a "mood" or judgment implied in all of it; I have a story written by a roommate (ENFP) and also some song lyrics by a band I've recently fixed upon in mind. Lyrics follow:


time for the final bout. rows of deserted houses:
all our stable mates are highway bound.
give us our measly sum:
getting the air inside my lungs is heavenly.
we're starting out with nothing but crippling doubt.
we'll rest easy (justified).
i've suffered a swift defeat, i'll endure countless repeats.
the gift of memory is an awful curse.
with age it just gets much worse, but i won't mind.

Lots of observations being made, of not-necessarily-specific (i.e. abstract or meant-to-be-abstract) things, with a message (casted judgment) implied in the order and flow of the whole thing, along with key words that ensure comprehension. (Fi) I have a strong suspicion these guys (or at least the lead singer, who writes most of the songs AFAIK) are NFPs.

I'm not that strong with Fi but, I can take a shot at what's going on here, with at least some of it:
Tossing "stable mates", "give of memory", "awful curse", "crippling doubt" all connect in a spiderweb manner (very Ne-like) with a hidden white elephant sitting in the middle -- that this has something to do with a breakup, with the narrator in this case being in the less fortunate position. That these were brought together for the purpose of conveying a personal feeling-related matter means there was Fi behind the scenes painting the lines that Ne used to lay its connections.

I believe that is how Ne + Ji works, Ne portrays and assumes that there are connections between different (otherwise non-obviously-connected) ideas, but the glue used to connect these ideas is painted with either Ti or Fi, and the two connect ideas in distinctly different manners--Fi will connect ideas if they have some kind of value-related similarity, and Ti will connect ideas if they have some kind of logical principle-related similarity. The logic-oriented interplay, Ne+Ti, will give way to lots of nerdy computer/tech geek acronyms and shorthand "index" words that are meant to refer to whole systems or worlds of ideas, the theory being that if you can use Ne properly when you read the "index" word or acronym, you can follow the rope down the rabbit hole and instantly begin to view (or recall) the whole system/world/etc. it's referring to. However if your Ti is lacking in skill, or far more likely, you just don't know enough about the different ideas at play or know about their connections, you might not see all the "connections" and it will leave you confused instead.

[htb]

I believe that is how Ne + Ji works, Ne portrays and assumes that there are connections between different (otherwise non-obviously-connected) ideas, but the glue used to connect these ideas is painted with either Ti or Fi, and the two connect ideas in distinctly different manners--Fi will connect ideas if they have some kind of value-related similarity, and Ti will connect ideas if they have some kind of logical principle-related similarity.I think you nailed it. Here, what separates the cognition of an INTP and ENTP -- or an ENFP and INFP -- is simply the priority given to each variable. The introverted types would rest more heavily on glue, the extraverted on volume of ideas.

That brings to mind a loose analysis I've made of Fe-driven lyrics versus Fi-driven lyrics, incidentally. When writing expressively and abstractly about love or other powerful emotions, there's a definite difference between Fe and Fi -- and the excerpt you have is clearly what I've come to expect as Fi, focused on the impression of the relationship rather than the relationship itself.

Forgive us for the drift, Cascademn -- the silver lining is that a) this is really interesting, and b) I may have spoken too soon about cognitive functions' relevance to your type.

[cascademn]

Forgive us for the drift, Cascademn -- the silver lining is that a) this is really interesting, and b) I may have spoken too soon about cognitive functions' relevance to your type.

Oh, I'm tickled by the turn this thread is taking!!! I find it very interesting as well.

Related to b) - you've piqued my curiousity. Do you have new thoughts regarding my type? Or are you just now saying that cognitive functions ARE something to pay close attention to, alongside real-life feedback from others?

[htb]

Oh, I'm tickled by the turn this thread is taking!!! I find it very interesting as well.

Related to b) - you've piqued my curiousity. Do you have new thoughts regarding my type? Or are you just now saying that cognitive functions ARE something to pay close attention to, alongside real-life feedback from others?The latter. INFPs I've encountered have either been Enneagram Fours or Enneagram Nines -- in other words, moody types or peaceful, non-interventionist types. IJs are different, even in writing structure; from what I've gathered you have this sense about you.

[cascademn]

The latter. INFPs I've encountered have either been Enneagram Fours or Enneagram Nines -- in other words, moody types or peaceful, non-interventionist types. IJs are different, even in writing structure; from what I've gathered you have this sense about you.

Well, to keep things real, I have always typed as enneagram 4, and in reading its content relate most to it, although types 1, 5, and 9 are relatively prominent as well.

Personally, I view myself as having some pretty deep wells of emotion, and I think I am pretty emotional - happy one day, rather melancholy/reflective the next. So I'm pretty in tune with my emotional state. Perhaps the distinction though is that I don't often externalize it to others -- so it isn't an obvious characteristic in real life. I think I come across as pretty even-keeled in real life, especially in a work environment. Probably a bit more flighty or expressive while socializing, but I imagine I still come across as rather....composed??? I'm not sure what other word would describe it.

While I think I keep, and like, a lot of structure in my external environment, and like that organization, and stay on top of things, when it comes to life goals, I basically don't have any. I wrote about this in my blog, but I think I must be one of the least goal-oriented J's in existance. :-P

All of that said....based on what I've learned in this thread, I can now see how Ni is my dominant function, and I have a large dose of Fe too. By definition that makes me INFJ -- and I can live with that!!! (I just have other functions that are equally or more high, so that's probably what adds the variety to my expression!)

[evan]

I think my own function order is Ti-Ni, so I can understand where you're coming from here. I also have problems accepting the MBTI function order as a black and white system. :)

heh i thought i was the only one that thought of it that way. Ni-Ti here.

why wouldn't someone be able to use two introverted functions more readily than an extroverted one?

among one type (this now relates to the thread), there are infinitely many possible distributions of functions. INFJ just means you're an Ni dominant and you have Fe, Ti, and Se in there somewhere (most likely pretty close to the prescribed order, because there's a lot of synergy).

i don't think not relating fully to profiles or other INFJs necessarily means you should question your type. so many different external standards and internal standards :)

as for my personal opinion, i've never had the thought that you weren't an INFJ (and that's saying something). i'm not exactly sure though.

[Mondo]

heh i thought i was the only one that thought of it that way. Ni-Ti here.

I would imagine it's definitely possible. A person would strongly identify with being an Introvert in this case if the Ti was developed more than the Fe. This, I believe, would happen if you strongly prefer Introversion over Extraversion. Ti would get a better chance to develop than Fe.

If you are confident that the Ni is stronger than the Ti, but the Ti exists that pretty much still seals the deal that you are an INFJ.

[htb]

Personally, I view myself as having some pretty deep wells of emotion, and I think I am pretty emotional - happy one day, rather melancholy/reflective the next. So I'm pretty in tune with my emotional state. Perhaps the distinction though is that I don't often externalize it to others -- so it isn't an obvious characteristic in real life. I think I come across as pretty even-keeled in real life, especially in a work environment. Probably a bit more flighty or expressive while socializing, but I imagine I still come across as rather....composed??? I'm not sure what other word would describe it.That, I think, is the difference between INFPs and INFJs. In my experience, the mood swings of INFPs are much more pronounced (they're mercurial or withdrawn, depending on the individual personality) than those of INFJs (who simply appear subdued or else strained in their effort to appear genial); especially in mixed company.

All of that said....based on what I've learned in this thread, I can now see how Ni is my dominant function, and I have a large dose of Fe too.Yes, and good of you to remind us of that while we continue to wander!

By definition that makes me INFJ -- and I can live with that!!! (I just have other functions that are equally or more high, so that's probably what adds the variety to my expression!)INFJs are 24-karat nice, so there certainly isn't anything wrong with that.