type and artist - artists please comment

[Ilah]

ISFPs are sometimes labled the artists. Does that mean that most artists are ISFPs? Is it unusual to be another type and be and artist. I think INs tend more to writing than visual art.

I concider my self an artist (amateur, self taught) and I am INTJ. I belong to another web group where I talk to other (mostly amatuer) artists and I often feel that I am quite a bit different than most people on the site. As an NT, I am used to feeling different than most people, but I though I would get more of a kindred spirits connection with other artists that I have.

I have always though of myself as very creative, and I believe much of that comes from my N. My N is a big influence in my art, but I when I attempt to discuss this most artists don't identify with it and I am not sure if they really understand what I am saying.

At first I though I don't have much at all with ISFP - completely different letters except for the I, but looking at the development chart, I see some parallels. ISFP is listed as Fi, Se, Ni, Te and INTJ is Ni, Te, Fi, Se. I looked at when traits develop. For ISFP, the Se is developed at age 12-20, the age where many artists start drawing, painting, etc. I think Fi plays a role, but you need the Se to go with it. For INTJ, the Se is developed at age 35-50. I started my art late in life, after I was 35.

Ilah

[Orangey]

I'm supposedly INTP and I enjoy art very much. I used to be into photography, and I currently enjoy doing representational drawing. I find that, while I am good at drawing from a model or a still, I have problems when it comes to creating a concept from scratch. I do 'academic' drawing. I can't just look at things and get a flourish of ideas to put down onto a canvas. I find that I analyze them too much, and when I finally produce a concept, it's so over-thought that it appears trite and contrived. Like a typical sci-fi sort of scene or a fantasy scene from a book. Doing rapid gesture drawings has broken this habit a bit as it forces me to react purely to the sensory data as opposed to the abstraction that's involved in full drawing (drawing from primitives, simple shapes). Anyway I think I'm getting off topic :).

I've seen some people work that can just really paint or draw what they are feeling. Their work has a quality that is 'above' mere quality of craftsmanship. I don't know what their types were, but I wouldn't be surprised if they were some sort of SF combination.

[arborvitae]

I'm an ISFP, but I seemed to have been shorted these "artistic gifts" that are always associated with my type :( I find playing around with crafts and paints to be a lot of fun and relaxing, but I wouldn't consider myself especially talented at art. Not all artists are ISFPs, and not all ISFPs are artists. The types that are attracted to producing art are probably as diverse as the mediums and styles of art that exist.

[Samuel De Mazarin]

I'm an artist-wannabe... or acolyte at best... I couldn't call myself an "artist" since I've not become a professional... I'm an ENTP... I played classical violin to the point at which I was entering competitions (I'd say I was four or five years away from being able to audition for a good orchestra, but not philharmonic... you have to be insanely good to get into one of those...)... also played in rock bands (piano and singing).... but my main love is writing and I'm trying to develop it into a profession.

My biggest problem, as an NP, is not seeing things through. I've had good reviews of my work, but novels always get aborted at the fiftieth page, as it were....

I agree strongly with arborvitae ("the types that are attracted to producing art are probably as diverse as the mediums and styles of art that exist").

I have friends of all types who are wonderful artists, and true artists... actually, I have an ISTJ friend who just rocks it on the guitar AND drawing AND he creates action figures to specification (right down to modeling a face) to sell on Ebay... so what of types and art? And don't a lot of artists capitalize on their ability to see not only deep within themselves but also outside themselves? They utilize their secondary and tertiary functions, their shadows, much more than ordinary folk, I would assume.

[CaptainChick]

I dance, (used to choreograph), write poetry, paint and draw.

[Uberfuhrer]

An ISFP is an artist not in a literal sense, but it's more like they are theoretically more in tune with natural aesthetics.

When describing the SP temperament, Keirsey defined art as the act of being spontaneous and adapting to life rather than trying to change it, so it's not what most people think of when they think of art.

I think that with the more common sense definition of art, as in painting, sculpting, poetry, and so forth, it is not about which type is best at art, but rather, it's about how each temperament approaches their artwork if they are artistically inclined.

The SP artist would likely be spontaneous and improvise, perhaps come up with embellishments while in the process of doing -- tertiary or inferior Ni coming to the aid of dominant or secondary Se to embellish doing.

The SJ would probably be more conservative in approach, working within what has been done before.

The NF is probably the type of artist who shares a personal vision geared to expressing a social statement or personal feelings of some sort. Exploration of the human condition and all that stuff.

The NT is probably most inclined to be the visionary artist -- that is an artist expresses conceptions of esoteric worlds and designs. They approach tasks strategically, and so start with a vision and use the outside world to realize that vision.

[CaptainChick]

The NF is probably the type of artist who shares a personal vision geared to expressing a social statement or personal feelings of some sort. Exploration of the human condition and all that stuff.

When writing my poetry, yes, I would say that this assumption is true, however, in both my paintings and drawings, this couldn't be further from the truth.

Below, are three of my drawings which pretty much exemplify my general artistic aesthetic style.

http://img510.imageshack.us/img510/623/img0718ql8.jpg

http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/8891/img0723am2.jpg

http://img295.imageshack.us/img295/3779/img0721rr0.jpg

[Uberfuhrer]

Having said what I said above, however, I also used to draw, but I just don't do it anymore, for some reason. I just don't think I'm talented enough to get anywhere with it.

But basically, I approached my art very strategically and I planned it out.

[Little Linguist]

I used to participate in Irish dancing because I thought it was beautiful. However, I never used to practice more than twenty minutes once a week because the repetition drove me nuts sometimes. Then, BOOM, I would be able to do it well from one day to the next, as if I had taken a pill that made it possible. I cannot explain it.

Recently, I have taken to drawing because it makes me relax. I'm no good, but oh well.

I love music, but I do not have enough discipline to play. I usually just fool around on the piano just for the hell of it.

However, I would not call myself an "artist" per se. I do not know if that "counts." :huh:

[murkrow]

I'm a writer and I approach it in a very NT and even ENTJ way.

I've been writing poetry since I was 9 but I think that my personality is really a stopper on how developed my poetry will get.

I have a hard time getting at the feeling side of poetry and focus more on trying to find flawless metaphors and things.

When I'm writing fiction I plan the entire thing before hand. I have been working on the same story for about two years now and I don't have any text written, just tonnes of notes. I think that my ENTJ really lends itself well to developing stories that can make a philosophical statement without being opinionated. I am very good with character development and interactions, which I think is an expression of my executive/mobilizing capabilities.

Really what I bring to my art is vision, reason and direction. What I don't have is the capability to make things "flow".

[creativeRhino]

I spent 2005-2007 studying art (diploma in ceramics) and it was doing that that got me back interested in MBTI.

For 20 years I'd been in InfoTech (pure tech roles all the way through to senior managment). One big US company I worked for used MBTI extensively to help with all the physical and virtual teams we'd end up on. InfoTech suited my NTJness. I did things well, on time and without fuss. "results focus". Most of the techies and those with a techie background were xNTx - some great INTJ/INTP backroomers and some ENTJ/ENTP types in the more managerial and otherwise tough roles. I fitted right in.

Then in this Art course I struggled so I went back to MBTI theory and looked at it - yep a lot of the folks in the course were ISFP/ESFP with a few weak J types. They all had experience in art (virtually all were "mature age" students) and I had none. I freaked at how out of my depth I was, then I calmed down and just approached each task as I had done work projects. I ended up with the academic excellence award and one of 2 prizes for "good art". A lot of the "artistic types" just couldn't work to deadlines, and couldn't be systematic (very important in ceramics - tiny percentage differences in glazing and firing may make a big difference!). I spoke to the teachers and one of them remarked that there had been quite a few people "like me" in approach (and it turns out at least 2 of them knew they were INTJ when I asked them) who did well - good art they could do reliably and really tended to be the ones who could make a living out of their work as a result.

I don't think it's necessary to be a "professional artist" - in fact it may be better as a "profitable hobby". Yet there is a sad snobbery against "hobbyists".

Yet for 2 years I had to listen to the "creative types" talk about their ideas endlessly, and how they didn't know how they'd do them (hey, if they'd paid attention thats what the teachers were trying to teach!) and then about all the stuff that stopped them doing "it". Then they'd do it all at the last minute and almost never got their visual diary ideas into reality. Now with ceramics you need to make a piece, dry it (sometimes over days) and then do 2 firings that will take about a 48 hour time window. Lots of things can go wrong and to succeed you needed to factor that in.

I think all of us are creative - it is just that we need to find our "thing" to bring it out. Yes there's amateurs/hobbyists and then professional artists. But it takes a long time for most to build up to where they can "give up their day jobs".

As far as type goes I can see that xSFP gives you immediate access to "just what is there", good Feeling to take the idea a step further and the patience to explore how to do that (P). As an xNTJ I could come up with an idea quickly (N) and work out how to make it real (T) and just do it (J). So for me the only difference I noticed between types was a more organic approach to appearance by the SFP types, and a more precise style (sculpted etc) for the NTJs. But this was not hard and fast...

In one book on painting (we covered ceramics/drawing/painting/design/photography in the course!) there was a good "joke" about acrylic paints that could apply:

The good thing about acrylic paint is that it dries quickly, and the bad thing about acrylic paint is that it dries quickly. To me that's sort of how we have to deal with everything in life regardless of our type - know whether our preferences are likely to be an asset or a liability in a particular scenario.
as and NTJ I got my work done well and on time, but could I have taken more time to work the design through and produced something better? The SFPs had a series of fantastic ideas on paper but seldom had anything like what they wanted as the final piece in time for assessment (heck, if they had a year they would have had great pieces!).

I learned to a bit about experimenting with the type thing by trying to take a more SFP approach (couldn't do S... and struggled with F...)

[lovelornRationalist]

I'm an INTJ and have published two books of poetry, am obsessed with painting and love music.

I'm deeply moved by the order of art, the moral compulsion to create order out of chaos. Like Robert Frost, I see the arts as 'a momentary stay against confusion'.

I tend to be attracted to ideas in art, and clean distinct line. Keats' 'Oh for a life of sensations rather than of thoughts' never chimed with me.

T

[Orangey]

As far as type goes I can see that xSFP gives you immediate access to "just what is there"

I think this was my biggest thing...it takes a greater effort for me to just "see" what's there in front of me "as it is", or to see the thing "for itself". Some people just have that ability. I had to literally learn how to do this through practice because it didn't come naturally.

In one book on painting (we covered ceramics/drawing/painting/design/photography in the course!) there was a good "joke" about acrylic paints that could apply:

The good thing about acrylic paint is that it dries quickly, and the bad thing about acrylic paint is that it dries quickly.

I liked acrylics until I tried oils. Man what a difference. I know this is unrelated to what you were saying, but I really can't work with how fast acrylics dry. In fact, even before I used oils and could compare the two, I liked to use a slow-dry medium with the acrylics.

[TheKei]

I draw, always have. I'm just one of those who never stopped. But I wouldn't call my work "art", I see it as "craft". My drawings are usually very technical and "correct", of course this might have something to do with the training I got at The Drawing Academy, which was mostly classical drawing and aimed at people who want to become animators. I get more creative when it comes to creating concepts and characters.

[Ilah]

I am surprised to see it is mostly NTs, and NFs that responded to this post. I was expecting a lot of SF artist to post.

I am still in the process of going through different styles. At first I think my drawings were very influenced on the technical level. As a novice I could not get full realism, but I tried to be somewhat realistic. Now I look at those pictures and they seem a little bit boring, lacking something even though they are pretty.

I also did a series of abstracts that were a representation of some strong feelings (emotions) I had at the time. Those seemed to be more powerful, meaningful cards.

The work I have been doing lately I think is more N driven. Sometimes I will just take my supplies and work with them and art will just come out. This is in contrast to earlier work where I would think about it a bit before I did anything. It isn't a specific style of art - that varies - but a type of art. I enjoy this much more than the other types of art, I like the finished product better as well - it seems more meaningful. I have a much deeper connection to my art.

It feels really meaningful to me, but it is not really obvious by looking at the pictures. They are often just simple pictures and designs.

There are some (to me) unusual attitudes on the art board in am on. When people talk about the meaning of art, there are a number of people who say things like "Why does art have to mean something? Why can't it just be something that looks pretty?" Sometimes they are so loud and vocal about it that it tables the discussion on symbolism and meaning in art.

I still use T a little to learn new techniques, but they don't really become fun till I have them down enough to use without thinking too much.

Ilah

[Thursday]

INFJ - i think
and i don't plan any of my art
i see something, or experience an aha
and i write the song
then i plot out chords that correspond to the tone of the emotion
or in the reverse order

[Orangey]

There are some (to me) unusual attitudes on the art board in am on. When people talk about the meaning of art, there are a number of people who say things like "Why does art have to mean something? Why can't it just be something that looks pretty?" Sometimes they are so loud and vocal about it that it tables the discussion on symbolism and meaning in art.

Are you on a concept art board? If so, I can imagine that they'd have that kind of an attitude. I used to think that way a lot, but I've toned it down a bit now and can see the value of interpretation. That being said, I am still more inclined to enjoy the beauty of the technique and execution in a piece than my own interpretation of its meaning. It's probably because I'm no good at it :yes:.

Oh, and about the NF and NT thing...I don't have access to any statistics off hand, but I'm inclined to say that the overwhelming majority of posters on this type of forum are N's and not S's. That's probably why there is such an imbalance in the responses to this thread.

[GZA]

Most of my art is music, but I've done a few paintings, too.

In music, I just try to make something that sounds good (which means it could be a pretty jazz ballad or something that rocks/blueses hard, as long as it sounds good). I've been playing guitar for almost 5 years and harmonica for maybe two or three. I like to make some music that portrays a certain emotion, but soemtimes that emotion is just "yes! this is awesome!" rather than sad/happy/ect.

In painting and drawing I often do crazy surrealistic stuff like flying Rhino's and faces crashing into the earth like a comet and windmills coming out of giant pop cans, ect. I just go for the visual effect there. I like landscapes, too. I don't paint or draw that often, but I take art in school.

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a145/pimpviscious/random%20crap/painting.jpg

The face has better shading in person, by the way, but it's a light blue wash so it doesn't show up on camera...

I don't see art as a way to make social commentary, but I do sometimes like it be be overall reflective of human nature.

[Orangey]

GZA, I really like the piece you posted, it's very expressive. Watercolor? The composition is very good- it leads the eye from the right (starting with the windmill-thing shadow) to the left, and is bounded by the face which re-directs it to the center. The boat, also, is pointing to the center, and the big red thing flows with the movement. If I were to offer any constructive criticism of the composition, if I may, it would be that the boat should be placed closer in space to the bottom left corner of the frame so that it has a more dynamic position, leading the eye from the immediate left to the right where the windmill-thing is placed. The face could also be smaller, or further in the space plane from the windmill-thing. I know you probably didn't post it for crit, but I'm in an 'arty' frame of mind today, so sorry :).

I like it though :nice:. Good job!

[Ilah]

Are you on a concept art board? If so, I can imagine that they'd have that kind of an attitude. I used to think that way a lot, but I've toned it down a bit now and can see the value of interpretation. That being said, I am still more inclined to enjoy the beauty of the technique and execution in a piece than my own interpretation of its meaning. It's probably because I'm no good at it :yes:.

Oh, and about the NF and NT thing...I don't have access to any statistics off hand, but I'm inclined to say that the overwhelming majority of posters on this type of forum are N's and not S's. That's probably why there is such an imbalance in the responses to this thread.

I am not sure what you mean by concept art board. The primary purpose is of the board is a a forum for members to trade art with each other. As a secondary purpose there is an area to talk about art and an area to talk about off topic stuff. The art discussion is mostly about techniques and supplies. There will be some posts about getting over artistic slumps but very little interest in the philosophy or feelings behing the art.

Ilah

[Orangey]

I am not sure what you mean by concept art board. The primary purpose is of the board is a a forum for members to trade art with each other. As a secondary purpose there is an area to talk about art and an area to talk about off topic stuff. The art discussion is mostly about techniques and supplies. There will be some posts about getting over artistic slumps but very little interest in the philosophy or feelings behing the art.

Ilah

Ah okay, I thought you might mean something along the lines of this (http://www.conceptart.org/forums/), as I would expect the attitude you described to prevail in that type of setting as well.

[Jennifer]

ISFPs are sometimes labled the artists. Does that mean that most artists are ISFPs? Is it unusual to be another type and be and artist. I think INs tend more to writing than visual art.

it depends on what sort of artist.

There are zillions of approaches to art, no matter what genre you are part of. (This is why painting covers the gamut, from pop art to impressionist to impressionist to still life and portraits to Thomas Kincaide to HR. Giger, for example.)

ISFPs are artists in the sense of being concrete/sensualized artists. The art or at least the act of creating art -- the rightness of what is being down -- is usually justified by a pleasant physical sensation within the body and mind of the ISFP.

They usually are bricoleurs as well; instead of creating new building blocks to use wholesale in their art or creating some entirely new pattern, they take the bits and pieces around them and play around with the assembly of them, with less imposed logic and more just based on how the resulting assembly "feels" to them. The experience of art is very very important.

I am surprised to see it is mostly NTs, and NFs that responded to this post. I was expecting a lot of SF artist to post.

Why?

They usually don't care much about intellectualizing and describing the art process. They'd rather be MAKING art, not figuring out how art is made.

Note above -- it's all about the EXPERIENCE of making art, not really about describing the theory of art like NTs and even NFs do.

[SolitaryPenguin]

They usually don't care much about intellectualizing and describing the art process. They'd rather be MAKING art, not figuring out how art is made.


:yes:

When I was younger, I used to throw away my drawings and paintings once I felt like I was finished with them. I had gotten what I needed out of the experience and didn't really think about whether or not someone else might want to look at it.

[nolla]

I like art too. I do digital painting, vector art and sometimes photo manipulations.

For me it is about the outcome and what can be said through the picture. I dont really "love the process", the process is more like a meditative state that ends up bringing the idea out of my head into a form that can be viewed by others, maybe even understood. I really like thinking about what I want to say, how it can be said and how I can make the message a bit twisted to keep it interesting.. Feeling is also very important. I rarely succeed in my goals, though, but even the little victories keep me coming back to my wacom.