Jothari/Kothari [ -> Harikari? ] Charts

[Jennifer]

There was an interesting grid developed in the 50's, to compare one's self-assessment with how one is truly perceived by others.

(Read more about the Johari window (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johari_window).)

There's an online test w/ database for both the Johari (positive) and Nohari (negative) windows that you can take and store your results, then have others go to your link and describe you as well.

- Johari test (http://kevan.org/johari)
- Nohari test (http://kevan.org/nohari)

If you do this test, feel free to post the links to your particular pages in this thread so that others can offer their own feedback/descriptions and help you see yourself from another angle.

If you'd like to discuss the Johari/Nohari windows, feel free to post here as well.

Note: Obviously the Nohari is a negative assessment of oneself (i.e., weaknesses). If the idea of getting some [constructive] criticism bothers you, feel free to just do the positive Johari window.

[Jennifer]

I'll be a nice victim and go first. :)

- Jennifer's Johari window (http://kevan.org/johari?name=Jennifont)
- Jennifer's Nohari window (http://kevan.org/nohari?name=Jennifont)

[Maverick]

Here are mine:

Interactive Johari Window - Describe Maverick-mbti (http://kevan.org/johari?name=Maverick-mbti)
The Nohari Window - Describe Maverick-mbti (http://kevan.org/nohari?name=Maverick-mbti)

[Athenian200]

Interactive Johari Window - Describe athenian200 (http://kevan.org/johari?name=athenian200)

The Nohari Window - Describe athenian200 (http://kevan.org/nohari?name=athenian200)

Here you are. What do you think?

[proteanmix]

Interactive Johari Window - Describe proteanmix (http://kevan.org/johari?name=proteanmix)
The Nohari Window - Describe proteanmix (http://kevan.org/nohari?name=proteanmix)

I make this one request: make the negative comments "anonymous". I don't want to know who says what. :(

[Economica]

Awesome! (I say that now. ;))

Johari (http://kevan.org/johari?name=Economica)
Nohari (http://kevan.org/nohari?name=Economica)

[Economica]

Oh wow... I'm finding it really harsh to do the Nohari ones for the rest of you. I just want to say it's a process of elimination, not "you're soooo this". :cry:

[ptgatsby]

I would encourage everyone to fill these out*. It doens't take long and it sure is interesting :D

(On the other hand, I am probably not going to fill out my own ;) )

* - Edit: I mean, fill out the ones posted...

[Jennifer]

You know what amazes me (just looking at the Nohari for a moment) are:

(1) the things I see as weak inside myself that no one else seems to notice (!)
(2) the things that others agree on from the outside, that just did not cross my mind, really.

(For example, "panicky." I would have never thought it, but once y'all said it, I could take a look from the outside and realize why that could really come across to people... and maybe in some ways I do get panicky/unstable outwardly, even if inwardly I'm not nearly as panicky as I'm acting.)

Anyway... neat. :)

I would encourage everyone to fill these out*. It doens't take long and it sure is interesting :D
(On the other hand, I am probably not going to fill out my own ;) )

Anyone out there want to take a shot at being gatsby? :D It doesn't take long and sure to be interesting!

[ptgatsby]

Anyone out there want to take a shot at being gatsby? :D It doesn't take long and sure to be interesting!

Oh no you don't.

Interactive Johari Window - Describe ptgatsby (http://kevan.org/johari?name=ptgatsby)

The Nohari Window - Describe ptgatsby (http://kevan.org/nohari?name=ptgatsby)

(I trust no one in this thread to do this for me, gawd... And I don't question the lack of intent either. Scary!)

[Falcarius]

Interactive Johari Window - Describe Zhang_Bob (http://kevan.org/johari?name=zhang_bob)

The Nohari Window - Zhang_Bob's Window (http://kevan.org/nohari?view=zhang_bob)

[Blackwater]

Interactive Johari Window - Describe Blackwater (http://kevan.org/johari?name=Blackwater)

The Nohari Window - Describe Blackwater (http://kevan.org/nohari?name=Blackwater)

[Vicki]

Interactive Johari Window - Describe Vickiwashere (http://kevan.org/johari?name=Vickiwashere)

The Nohari Window - Describe VickiWasHere (http://kevan.org/nohari?name=VickiWasHere)

Tell me what you think!

[Economica]

This thread needs a catchier title. :dry:

[Jennifer]

This thread needs a catchier title. :dry:

As you wish! :)

[Economica]

As you wish! :)

Nifty. :D

(I'll be mass PM'ing if the rate of participation doesn't improve after this.)

[Natrushka]

There was an interesting grid developed in the 50's, to compare one's self-assessment with how one is truly perceived by others.

(Read more about the Johari window (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johari_window).)

I'd never heard of this until a few months ago, and then it was mentioned at my uncles wake of all things. Back in the early 70s he wrote and directed a movie at Carleton University called "The Johari Window" which was promptly blacklisted and pulled because it was too controversial.

OK I've done it.

Interactive Johari Window - Describe Natrushka (http://kevan.org/johari?name=Natrushka)
The Nohari Window - Describe Natrushka (http://kevan.org/nohari?name=Natrushka)

[proteanmix]

The Nohari ones that surprise me the most are the cold, withdrawn, needy, and insecure. I wonder how I've given people these impressions!

Not really surprised with the rest.

[Economica]

The Nohari ones that surprise me the most are the cold, withdrawn, needy, and insecure. I wonder how I've given people these impressions!

On behalf of all 'voters': You asked that people be anonymous, so do you want the people who picked those things to tell you why or...?

Incidentally, I would like to reiterate that for me it's been a painful process of elimination so far rather than an eager zoning in on weaknesses I always wanted to tell people that they had.

(Of course, I'm hostile enough to have told them already. :whistling: :doh: ;))

[Jennifer]

Incidentally, I would like to reiterate that for me it's been a painful process of elimination so far rather than an eager zoning in on weaknesses I always wanted to tell people that they had.

Uh huh. I tried very hard to be fair and step outside my own "type identity" -- i.e., not just having knee-jerk reactions against people who are different than me and have traits that might personally grate on me. But I still did feel somewhat bad about pointing things out.

Then again, that's why I went first. :devil:

(Of course, I'm hostile enough to have told them already. :whistling: :doh: ;))

And violent too. (don't forget that.)

* * *

Here's an odd one. In my Johari window, I don't have anything under "facade." I guess that is good...? (i.e., there is nothing so far that I know/think about myself that others do not see?)

[Economica]

And violent too. (don't forget that.)

That's only got one vote so far (versus 4 for hostile) - though I suppose it should count double coming from someone who knows me IRL. :cry:

[Jennifer]

That's only got one vote so far (versus 4 for hostile) - though I suppose it should count double coming from someone who knows me IRL. :cry:

:D That was my thought...!

(You haven't been pulling wings off flies or torturing kitty cats, have you?)

[proteanmix]

On behalf of all 'voters': You asked that people be anonymous, so do you want the people who picked those things to tell you why or...?

Incidentally, I would like to reiterate that for me it's been a painful process of elimination so far rather than an eager zoning in on weaknesses I always wanted to tell people that they had.

(Of course, I'm hostile enough to have told them already. :whistling: :doh: ;))

Hmmm, I guess I wasn't completely aware of the impressions I was giving off on the forum. I figured inflexible/overdramatic would be my most commonly cited negatives but not cold and withdrawn and I'm also surprised over the intolerant. I tend to keep my opinions to myself except for the N superiority thing in all of it's various formats, I know I'm very vocal about that. Otherwise, I haven't really commented about non-MBTI hot button topics.

If people really want to tell me why, I have no problem with a PM. You won't be anonymous anymore, but I'm interested in hearing it.

[Economica]

Here's an odd one. In my Johari window, I don't have anything under "facade." I guess that is good...? (i.e., there is nothing so far that I know/think about myself that others do not see?)

ZOMG! No one's calling me ingenious - I cannot be an INTJ then! :rolleyes:

[Jennifer]

ZOMG! No one's calling me ingenious - I cannot be an INTJ then! :rolleyes:

Nope. And all those ESTJs are pretty hostile and violent, dontcha think? :D *gasp*

[ptgatsby]

Here's an odd one. In my Johari window, I don't have anything under "facade." I guess that is good...? (i.e., there is nothing so far that I know/think about myself that others do not see?)

More like you know what you do well and make sure everyone else knows it too. (Not in the bragging sort of way, but your identity is strongly expressed).

Actually, similar to mine, people just ticked off half of the words (yours is worse than mine!)... which covers everything ;)

But the first reason sounds fancier, so I'm going with that.

[Jennifer]

More like you know what you do well and make sure everyone else knows it too. (Not in the bragging sort of way, but your identity is strongly expressed).

Cynic.

No, actually, I follow that. It could be partly "self-promotion" ... but in the positive sense, not necessary a negative. Or simply the Ti thing, finding the "definition" of me and then trying to conform to it and promote it, rather than living as instinctively as I could. (The results would be similar either way... except I am consciously pushing things I know about myself and conforming to them, and not allowing as much variability.)

[Usehername]

I made my real life friends take the tests for me.

Which do you think would be more interesting to examine:

1. comparing the separate internet (not yet made) and RL versions?
2. just posting the RL ones and asking for feedback from internet?
3. some other option

[ptgatsby]

I made my real life friends take the tests for me.

Which do you think would be more interesting to examine:

1. comparing the separate internet (not yet made) and RL versions?
2. just posting the RL ones and asking for feedback from internet?
3. some other option


Well, one thing I noted is that I got very few "Introverted" mentions... but in RL I'd probably have far more heavily based introverted (for some friends) and some very... uhh... disagreeable traits (cold, ruthless, psychopathic :D ) on others.

So, for that... I'm curious about the Internet vs RL versions the most (#1). It's also fairly easy, since they have the % measurements on the site. Can compare relative strength and spread... pretty interesting to me, anyway.

[Jennifer]

I think doing both (#1) would be the most interesting by far. You just have to convert the test into paper, so your friends can fill it out for you.

Then post the results here.

[targo]

Interactive Johari Window - Describe targo (http://kevan.org/johari?name=targo)

The Nohari Window - Describe targo (http://kevan.org/nohari?name=targo)

[Usehername]

Okay. Here's mine.

Interactive Johari Window - Describe usehername (http://kevan.org/johari?name=usehername)

The Nohari Window - Describe usehername (http://kevan.org/nohari?name=usehername)

I have had 10 RL friends complete the positive one and only 3 were brave enough to do the negative one. Comparison should be fun.

[The_Liquid_Laser]

Here are mine:

Interactive Johari Window - Describe The_Liquid_Laser (http://kevan.org/johari?name=The_Liquid_Laser)

The Nohari Window - Describe The_Liquid_Laser (http://kevan.org/nohari?name=The_Liquid_Laser)

[prplchknz]

Interactive Johari Window - prplchknz's Window (http://kevan.org/johari?view=prplchknz)

The Nohari Window - prplchknz (http://kevan.org/nohari?view=prplchknz)

[Usehername]

Here are mine:

Interactive Johari Window - Describe The_Liquid_Laser (http://kevan.org/johari?name=The_Liquid_Laser)

The Nohari Window - Describe The_Liquid_Laser (http://kevan.org/nohari?name=The_Liquid_Laser)

i didn't pick "religious" because of the terminology, but I would've picked "solid, really respectable Christian" if there was an option:)

[Usehername]

Alright. I don't want to link it b/c I entitled my friends page with my real name and I am paranoid, so I will try to type it out. It's in white in case you have yet to take my test, so that these results don't distort your answers. I will post the negatives tomorrow; I'm hoping to still get a few more responses there (i only have 3 as opposed to 10).

So, what my RL friends said:

KNOWN TO SELF + KNOWN TO OTHERS (top left) / ARENA:
calm (1)
clever (4)
confident (1)
reflective (4)

BLIND SPOT (top right):
able (1)
accepting (1)
adaptable (1)
brave (2)
cheerful (2)
complex (2)
dependable (2)
energetic (2)
friendly (1)
helpful (2)
idealistic (1)
ingenious (1)
intelligent (1)
kind (2)
logical (4)
mature (1)
modest (1)
observant (4)
organised (1)
religious (1)
responsive (1)
searching (1)
sensible (2)
silly (2)
spontaneous (1)
trustworthy (2)
witty (1)

FACADE (bottom left) / KNOWN TO SELF + UNKNOWN TO OTHERS:
independent
wise

[htb]

The adjectives grouped under the Nohari window constitute a very blunt instrument. I considered two forum members and couldn't find any word that was either accurate or fair.

[The_Liquid_Laser]

i didn't pick "religious" because of the terminology, but I would've picked "solid, really respectable Christian" if there was an option:)

Thanks. :) That's a word that can be taken as either a positive or negative depending. There are a few words on the Johari that I can't really think of as positives in any situation. For example who wants to be described as "tense"?

[Economica]

There are a few words on the Johari that I can't really think of as positives in any situation. For example who wants to be described as "tense"?

I agree.

I should have looked up some of these words (such as tense and brash) before I used (or didn't use) them. :blush:

Also, there are some word pairs I've been missing, such as realistic/naive to complement idealistic/cynical.

[Jennifer]

The adjectives grouped under the Nohari window constitute a very blunt instrument. I considered two forum members and couldn't find any word that was either accurate or fair.

Well, you are right about that. There were a few people I did not rate (either Johari and/or Nohari) because the words listed just did not do them justice.

It is what it is, I suppose.

Does anyone have a list of words they think would provide more coverage? One wants to avoid having too many words that generally "overlap," but at the same time if there are holes where some people/traits are left out...

[Athenian200]

Why is it so hard for everyone to do the Nohari section? It's just a list of negatives. Everyone has negative traits, so why is it bad to describe them? I don't get it. One person thought I was both observant and imperceptive. I think those are antonyms, which makes it kind of funny. :)

[Jennifer]

Why is it so hard for everyone to do the Nohari section? It's just a list of negatives. Everyone has negative traits, so why is it bad to describe them? I don't get it. One person thought I was both observant and imperceptive. I think those are antonyms, which makes it kind of funny. :)

I think I am taking it seriously, rather than casually.

And sometimes the words there are not quite accurate, or there are not enough words that truly match up.

And a negative, if not prepared for, often can have a very negative impact.
Even a positive person will be looking at the negatives as 'things to correct.'

So if I feed someone inaccurate words, it has a very likely chance of not only making them feel awkward/embarrassed but also driving them to correct things about themselves that aren't actual problems. If I'm going to give someone constructive criticism, I'm going to make sure it's either accurate or that I have qualified the limits of my comments.

In this list, you get a limited set of choices, and you can't qualify anything.

PS. Yours was easy to do. :devil:

[ygolo]

Interactive Johari Window - Describe ygolo (http://kevan.org/johari?name=ygolo)

The Nohari Window - Describe ygolo (http://kevan.org/nohari?name=ygolo)

[Zergling]

Johari (http://kevan.org/johari?name=Zergling)

Nohari (http://kevan.org/nohari?name=Zergling)

[Rhu]

(1) the things I see as weak inside myself that no one else seems to notice (!)
(2) the things that others agree on from the outside, that just did not cross my mind, really.
One thing I've hypothesized from looking at these things before, perhaps especially in insecure individuals, is that:

Adjectives picked in Johari windows tends towards "positive aspects that we have in common," while the Nohari tend more towards, "where I think I'm better than you."

[Mycroft]

I don't mind helping out for the people who want it, but given that I think everyone's personae on this board and their actual personalities are vastly different, I have to question how useful the results will be.

[Economica]

One thing I've hypothesized from looking at these things before, perhaps especially in insecure individuals, is that:

Adjectives picked in Johari windows tends towards "positive aspects that we have in common," while the Nohari tend more towards, "where I think I'm better than you."

The latter makes sense to me; the former not so much. I find I notice how people deviate from me while taking for granted how we are similar - especially with regard to strengths (I am Disagreeable and hence always good for pointing out a flaw :cry:).

I don't mind helping out for the people who want it, but given that I think everyone's personae on this board and their actual personalities are vastly different, I have to question how useful the results will be.

:yes: Personally I'm using the charts to find out how I am perceived on this board. I (naively?) don't think they would glean much new information among RL friends and acquaintances.

[Jennifer]

I don't mind helping out for the people who want it, but given that I think everyone's personae on this board and their actual personalities are vastly different, I have to question how useful the results will be.

I'm going to quibble about the assumptions made with the bolded phrase [At the very basic, how can you actually make a statement like that WITHOUT even knowing everyone IRL... and thus you WOULD be actually to better critique them accurately? Isn't your statement inherently contradictory?], but I agree that the xohari pages must be taken with a sense of their limitations.

I also see where Rhu is going. We each have our internal checklist of values and tend to make our evaluations of others based on the things we do and do not value. I think the bias comes out more strongly on the negative critiques, not as much on the positive critiques... It seems easier for people to accept someone else's strengths, even if they are different than ours; but the negatives really irk us and clash with our values more directly, making them seem larger and harder for us to be objective about as we should be.

(It is not that big an issue to me, as much as I'm making it sound. I guess I am more fussing over what I see as flaws/weaknesses in the criticisms, rather than the overall value/direction of the criticism. The windows have to be taken with a grain of salt. They are just useful general "aha" tools, of which the limitations need to be understood.)

[Zergling]

It doesn't seem like people have been doing the newer ones.

[Economica]

I'm going to quibble about the assumptions made with the bolded phrase

Oh yeah, I don't agree that online and offline personalities are vastly different (maybe for people who repress their personalities offline?). I do think they're different enough that it's more meaningful to do separate charts.

It doesn't seem like people have been doing the newer ones.

I'll get around to it soon! :)

[INTJMom]

I made my real life friends take the tests for me.

Which do you think would be more interesting to examine:

1. comparing the separate internet (not yet made) and RL versions?
2. just posting the RL ones and asking for feedback from internet?
3. some other optionI would be curious to know how the internet ones differ from the ones from people who know you IRL.

[Mycroft]

I'm going to quibble about the assumptions made with the bolded phrase [At the very basic, how can you actually make a statement like that WITHOUT even knowing everyone IRL... and thus you WOULD be actually to better critique them accurately? Isn't your statement inherently contradictory?], but I agree that the xohari pages must be taken with a sense of their limitations.

Oh yeah, I don't agree that online and offline personalities are vastly different (maybe for people who repress their personalities offline?). I do think they're different enough that it's more meaningful to do separate charts.

True enough. A propensity for hyperbole has always been a weakness of mine.

I don't mind helping out for the people who want it, but given that I think everyone's personae on this board and their actual personalities are different, I have to question how useful the results will be.

Fixed!

Edit: Man, it's so tempting to tick off "stupid" on the NTs' Noharis just to screw with them.

[Usehername]

I would be curious to know how the internet ones differ from the ones from people who know you IRL.

Noteable Differences (skipping out any votes with less than 4 IRL):

Known to Self & Others
Real Life: Reflective (5); Clever (4).
MBTIc: Reflective (3); Confident (3); Independent (3).

Known to Others
Real Life: Energetic (4); Logical (6); Observant (6); Organized (4); Searching (4); trustworthy (5).
MBTIc: Intelligent (6); Searching (3); Self-Assertive (4)

Not Known to Others (but known to self)
Real Life: wise
MBTIc: clever

To sum:
Although generally speaking, the parts of my identity came across both online and IRL, they appear to be differently weighted between the two worlds.
For instance, although my friends did pick things like intelligent/ingenious/knowledgeable (which were all selected a few times but not many times each), the dominant theme to my Real Life friend identity was my clever/observant/needing to grow myself aspect of my personality. The Ni, perhaps? The TJness showed up IRL also with my logical/organized part getting a lot of hits.
Reflective came up on both. Would this be attributed to INxx? IxxJ?
However, on MBTIc, not one person picked clever. What do people think this means? (I'm asking not because I care that no one picked clever, but what does this mean for how I am different IRL vs. online?) Is this a different use of Ni in my two worlds, or is this just plain different?
I've also had people handwrite thank-you notes or verbalize that they appreciate my wisdom when it comes to helping them decipher a situation or figure out what to do or just flesh out an issue. But, not one of my RL friends mentioned "wise". To be honest, I am not surprised. If I didn't have the thank you notes, etc. to remind me, I might be second-guessing this of myself if my friends didn't see it in me. But, it's just that I give off my goofy-energy-clever-wondering vibes far more than I allow people to see my personal, serious side. I'm not hiding it, but it's quite personal and when I'm not intimately relating to people, like when I'm around multiple friends, I tend to stay distant from this personal side of me.

(Most of my RL friends did not do the negative traits; the ones that were picked, however, were distant, withdrawn, aloof and insensitive. Perhaps my ENFJ skills aren't being employed as much as they could be around my RL friends that know the real me very well.)

[Jennifer]

Edit: Man, it's so tempting to tick off "stupid" on the NTs' Noharis just to screw with them.

Ha, now THAT made me laugh! (And I am jealous for not thinking of it first.)

[Athenian200]

Edit: Man, it's so tempting to tick off "stupid" on the NTs' Noharis just to screw with them.

If you thought that was tempting, did you even notice "incompetent" was an option? (Although that would be cruel, a bit like pouring acid on a wound.)

[Jennifer]

If you thought that was tempting, did you even notice "incompetent" was an option? (Although that would be cruel, a bit like pouring acid on a wound.)

"ahhh... it burns, it burns...!!"

[TenebrousReflection]

Interesting concept...

Johari Window - Describe TenebrousReflection (http://kevan.org/johari?name=TenebrousReflection)
Nohari Window - Describe TenebrousReflection (http://kevan.org/nohari?name=TenebrousReflection)

Trying to even think of things for the Nohari window for others is very difficult, so if you see soemthing from me that doesn't seem to fit, its probably more of trying to speculate on "maybe a little of this" kinda thing because trying to choose 5 or 6 negatives (and sometiems even 1) is difficult (I think I'll go with anonymous for the nohari stuff).

[Jen]

Jen's Johari (http://kevan.org/johari?name=BestofJen)

Jen's Nohari (http://kevan.org/nohari?name=BestofJen)

[arcticangel02]

So, I don't post here as much anymore, but hey, I'll try anyway. And I'll do my best for everyone else I know. Please note that most of my answers were done quickly, without too much deep analysis - so if something I've put down is confusing/hurtful, then just ignore it. Assume I just don't know you well enough. ;)

Interactive Johari Window - Describe Arctic (http://kevan.org/johari?name=Arctic)
The Nohari Window - Describe Arctic (http://kevan.org/nohari?name=Arctic)

[Zergling]

This was a nice thread to bump, it was kind of interesting to be able to go back and see people's attitudes from a few months ago.

(Also, I filled in a few people that I hadn't done the first time through.)

[Rajah]

Rajah's Johari (http://kevan.org/johari?name=RajahDeux)

Rajah's Nohari (http://kevan.org/nohari?name=rajahdeux)

[colmena]

I've just gone through some of these. I wouldn't feel at all confident/known enough to start up my own.

Falcarious' was my favourite to do (for positive reasons).

The most damaging must be that little gray unknown box in the Johari results. Ouch.

[Eileen]

Interactive Johari Window - Describe leeniebeth (http://kevan.org/johari?name=leeniebeth)
The Nohari Window - Describe leeniebeth (http://kevan.org/nohari?name=leeniebeth)


I did this years ago with people who know me personally, but I re-did it for my three-years-later forumself.

[colmena]

Only two intps signed up. One of them, the OPer.

I did this years ago with people who know me personally, but I re-did it for my three-years-later forumself.

I don't feel I know you well enough yet, but will come back to the thread at a later date.

[aeon]

Ian's Johari Window (http://kevan.org/johari?name=AeonIan) ;)

Ian's Nohari Window (http://kevan.org/nohari?name=AeonIan) :devil:


cheers,
Ian

[spirilis]

went ahead and created mine-

Interactive Johari Window - Describe spir1 (http://kevan.org/johari?name=spir1)
The Nohari Window - Describe spir1 (http://kevan.org/nohari?name=spir1)

[rhinosaur]

Johari (http://kevan.org/johari?name=rhinosaur)
Nohari (http://kevan.org/nohari?name=rhinosaur)

[Economica]

I'm bumping this thread, not because I want to redo my own Johari/Nohari charts (though if I get bored enough later tonight (yeah, so far I'm looking at a Saturday night with no social plans :dry:) I just might do it anyway) but because this was a healthy learning experience for me (http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/71855-post85.html) one year ago and I figure everyone should know of the opportunity. :whistling: