Ask the ISTJ

[RansomedbyFire]

So, since I hear that ISTJ's are so hard to figure out... You can ask us any question here, and we (or at least I) will try to enlighten you.

Fire away!

[Jennifer]

All right: When someone challenges your mindset on something (or proceeds to knock down as many of your points as they can), does it bother you on a personal level? Or is it just an intellectual conflict and thus "business"?

[RansomedbyFire]

All right: When someone challenges your mindset on something (or proceeds to knock down as many of your points as they can), does it bother you on a personal level? Or is it just an intellectual conflict and thus "business"?

It depends on what the topic being discussed is. But yes, there are quite a few (mostly pertaining to politics, morals, and religion) that I guess you could say bother me on a personal level. With most other things, I'm pretty good at not getting knocked down. :)

[Usehername]

What kind of compliments flatter you most?

Be specific. And I've read all the PUMII wrt the SJs. So, just like I will own up to brimming with feel-goodness when someone calls me a genius who never follows the crowd and always does her own thing, what really makes you feel great that people recognize about you?
What do you want to be seen as?

Be specific. (And to an ISTJ, this means don't leave stuff out on purpose, as opposed to a reminder to include the details)

[Jennifer]

It depends on what the topic being discussed is. But yes, there are quite a few (mostly pertaining to politics, morals, and religion) that I guess you could say bother me on a personal level. With most other things, I'm pretty good at not getting knocked down. :)

You seem so far to be dealing with any discussion here well enough and have seemed to take everything in stride (most notably the religious conversations). Was that the case, or were we a little too hard about things?

You just seem very resilient and tough, like the other ISTJ women I have known; but I wanted to make sure that I was not misreading things. (Since the goal was not to make anyone feel bad.)

[Lookin4theBestNU]

If your best friend asks you to tell them the complete truth are you more likely to a) tell it how you truly see it b) soften it up because it's your best friend c) avoid it if possible?

[RansomedbyFire]

What kind of compliments flatter you most?

Be specific. And I've read all the PUMII wrt the SJs. So, just like I will own up to brimming with feel-goodness when someone calls me a genius who never follows the crowd and always does her own thing, what really makes you feel great that people recognize about you?
What do you want to be seen as?

Be specific. (And to an ISTJ, this means don't leave stuff out on purpose, as opposed to a reminder to include the details)

Well, personally - and once again, I don't know if I'm speaking for all ISTJs or not - the thing I would most like to hear is that I am liked/likeable... which is a stretch sometimes... lol. :) ...or that people admire me for the way I do things... or that I have been an inspiration.

Now, compliments on looks, smarts, etc. are fine; but I guess these other areas are the ones I tend to question myself about.

You seem so far to be dealing with any discussion here well enough and have seemed to take everything in stride (most notably the religious conversations). Was that the case, or were we a little too hard about things?

You just seem very resilient and tough, like the other ISTJ women I have known; but I wanted to make sure that I was not misreading things. (Since the goal was not to make anyone feel bad.)

Let me clarify this. It bothers me when I am being contronted with points I can't debunk in a religious debate. Personally, I haven't found any of those here yet. Sure, there are people on here who have different opinions of who Jesus is, for example, but they didn't really address the dispute to me. It's just their personal opinion. You should've seen me in Relgion class though (college course). THAT ticked me off, and the professor and I got into it a couple times. lol.

If your best friend asks you to tell them the complete truth are you more likely to a) tell it how you truly see it b) soften it up because it's your best friend c) avoid it if possible?

Once again, it depends on what exactly they want to know. I have had times where I haven't been completely honest with very close friends, basically to protect myself; but I think this comes from how much I learned to lie as a teenager because it was what was best for me. However, I have also learned since then that, as hard as it can be, it's better to be honest in the first place, especially when your best friend is a prophet, lol. (no joke).

Now, I have been known for being brutally honest; and, alot of times, with friends, it's mostly 'cause I don't see where it will hurt them ('cause I don't think it would hurt me) but sometimes it does.

And then there are times where I do simply omit things...

[Jennifer]

Well, personally - and once again, I don't know if I'm speaking for all ISTJs or not - the thing I would most like to hear is that I am liked/likeable...

Not that I am buttering you up... but I do think you are very likable! ;)

[Usehername]

What about "competent"?

I keep telling my ISTJ people that they're really competent. Because they are. Is taht just me projecting toward others what I want to hear of myself? Does that really resonate with you, or is it just a nice compliment?

[RansomedbyFire]

Not that I am buttering you up... but I do think you are very likable! ;)
*ISTJ is flattered.*

See... it's just that easy, lol.

[Usehername]

Not that I am buttering you up... but I do think you are very likable! ;)

x2!!

You're very helpful, too.

[RansomedbyFire]

What about "competent"?

I keep telling my ISTJ people that they're really competent. Because they are. Is taht just me projecting toward others what I want to hear of myself? Does that really resonate with you, or is it just a nice compliment?

Umm... like I said, those kind of compliments are cool, but frankly... we know. :)

x2!!

You're very helpful, too.

Eh? is this just 'cause I'm letting you in on some secrets today (that I'm not even 100% sure apply to all ISTJs)?

[Usehername]

Umm... like I said, those kind of compliments are cool, but frankly... we know. :)



Eh? is this just 'cause I'm letting you in on some secrets today (that I'm not even 100% sure apply to all ISTJs)?

Yes. This is the only information I have on you re: your helpfulness.

[JivinJeffJones]

Why do you think ISTJs and INFPs hook up so often?

[RansomedbyFire]

Why do you think ISTJs and INFPs hook up so often?

Is that a question about my personal opinion that ISTJ goes well with INFP, or are you asking me to explain a reason for a pattern you've observed?

[JivinJeffJones]

Is that a question about my personal opinion that ISTJ goes well with INFP, or are you asking me to explain a reason for a pattern you've observed?

Both. I've noticed it as a bit of a pattern, and as an ISTJ married to an INFP yourself I thought you might be able to shed some light on the subject.

[Jennifer]

Eh? is this just 'cause I'm letting you in on some secrets today (that I'm not even 100% sure apply to all ISTJs)?

I don't know. Maybe it is because you are simply open to answer questions very matter-of-factly?

Many other types of people avoid direct answers, but I see ISTJ women often being very direct and practical and realistic when they answer questions (as long as the question is not a taboo/inappropriate one -- whereupon they will still often say, "I'm not going to answer, that's inappropriate" ... so you still know what they're thinking!)... so easy to get a real answer from as opposed to others who will often just say what you want to hear or dance around the question if it is too personal.

[RansomedbyFire]

Both. I've noticed it as a bit of a pattern, and as an ISTJ married to an INFP yourself I thought you might be able to shed some light on the subject.

Honestly, I have no idea. I had no idea he was an INFP 'til I tested him; and, by then, I already had secret plans to marry. lol. With limited knowledge of the actual "letter" characteristics of an INFP, let me give it a shot by some guessing/speculation.

First of all, he's an introvert; and I am so introverted myself that extraverts tend to repel/exhaust me.

Secondly, well, I really don't know how N plays into it; and I don't know all that much about N or value it that much, based on what I do know of it.

Thirdly, as you may have seen in my post on aspirations, I recognize excessive thinking as one of my weaknesses and admire the F's ability to be more caring than I am naturally.

And, once again, I don't know too much about P.

The main things that attracted me to my INFP (in chronological order, not by importance) were:
His sense of humor
His ability to relate to me quite well.
His willingness to (eventually) talk to me and not think he was better than I am like most tend to. (Maybe this is a misconception.)
And just how nice, caring, and polite he is.

And of course there's more, but that's just what caught my attention at first.

[Recoleta]

Ok, I guess I'll jump in here. For the most part, I agree with everything Randsomed said.

As far as when someone challenges my mindset, just like Ransomed said, it depends on the situation. For religious-type debates, I try not to let what anyone says affect me personally. I know what I believe and exactly why I believe it and anything they say will likely not change my mind. I'll be perfectly willing to listen, share my views, and even debate a bit, but in the end of it all the choice of religion is something deeply personal to every individual. You can't force someone to believe the same as you so I try not to take it personally. For other types of debates though (ones that I might be "on the fence about" or am still developing a full opinion on)...if my ideas are getting knocked down all over the place I am likely to get flustered and be mad with myself for not being as well prepared as my opponent...but that really doesn't happen too often ;)

As for complements, I like it when people recognize how hard I work. I'm really a pretty low-key and "behind the scenes" type of person, so it's nice to get a pat on the back every once in awhile. I also like when people say that I'm genuine and they feel like they can really trust me and tell me anything. As for competence, yeah, that will work too...but for some reason, it means a whole lot more when it comes from a male saying it. If a female says it, I'd be more likely to think, "Yeah, I already know that..." I really think complimenting our less-noted qualities is way more flattering than the obvious ones. I love it when people tell me that I'm funny (because most people don't understand or appreciate my dry/sarcastic/witty humor). When I can find someone that really enjoys and understands my humor, life is wonderful!

Finally, as for telling a friend the complete truth, it depends on how long I have known the friend and if I think they can handle the truth. If they outright tell me they want the truth, I will give it to them. If I don't think they can handle the full truth I will try to soften the blow as much as possible, but try to give them advice or suggestions. Although, I usually try to give them the truth by using some humor or sarcasm mixed in...I've found that humor is a good way to keep things from going sour. Also, if I'm critiquing them truthfully, I'd be sure to point out some of the positive qualities that I see in them.

[RansomedbyFire]

Alright, y'all, I'm about to go to church (within the next 30-ish minutes). So, I will be out for a couple hours, but I'll definitely check by here again sometime after I get back. So, don't be disappointed if you stop getting answers so quickly for a bit here.

[Wolf]

I need to go find some lunch, so I'll try to make this short and to-the-point:

How do you become the person/organization/etc that an ISTJ follows the orders of? Every time I run into an ISTJ they need form 871-stroke-C filled out, are stonewalling you on something because of some mysterious superior, or they haven't been given authorization. They are always doing the bidding of their masters...you know, the usual: exterminating jews, oppressing people, torturing and burning heretics at the stake, executing prisoners, checking identification papers, calling numbers at government facilities, burning witches, insisting you take your shoes off at security checkpoints, and always telling people that your superiors (or God(s)) told you to do it...

So, how do I locate and control my own ISTJs?

Dammit, I want to be Goebbels (http://www.geocities.com/verafides/mbti)!



A great ISTJ profile (http://www.xeromag.com/fun/personality.html):
ISTJs are characterized by loyalty, duty, and civic responsibility. As an ISTJ, you have a natural understanding of the value of civil harmony and order, and a deep-seated dislike of non-conformity, anarchy, and chaos.

For an ISTJ, work is very important to a sense of self-satisfaction. Happiness comes most easily for you when you have a job that allows you to express your ethic. Whether it's blasting traitorous rebel scum as a proud Imperial Stormtrooper or monitoring the population's cerebral implants searching for evidence of unauthorized thought patterns as one of the Thought Police, you're most satisfied when you are crushing the population beneath the iron boot heel of oppression on behalf of your masters.

RECREATION; ISTJs approach leisure with the same dedication they bring to spreading tyrrany and oppression. Common ISTJ pasttimes include cleaning their rifles, improving their marksmanship, betting on political dissidents in the Gladiator Arena, and macrame.

COMPATIBILITY: ISTJs are capable of stong emotional connections, bonding closely with the other ISTJs in their unit, platoon, or sector.

Famous ISTJs include TK-421, Torquemada, and Yuri Andropov.

[JivinJeffJones]

I hereby solemnly and firmly declare (invoke?) Godwin's law. Bad wolf, naughty wolf.

[Wolf]

I hereby solemnly and firmly declare (invoke?) Godwin's law. Bad wolf, naughty wolf.
It doesn't apply because it wasn't an argument.

According to Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law#Corollaries_and_usage), second paragraph, second sentence of this section, it is totally acceptable usage in this context. So there. :tongue10:

[Ivy]

It doesn't apply because it wasn't an argument.

According to Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law#Corollaries_and_usage), second paragraph, second sentence of this section, it is totally acceptable usage in this context. So there. :tongue10:

Everybody knows Wikipedia isn't a valid primary source! Here, I'll prove it: Reliability of Wikipedia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reliability_of_Wikipedia#Reliability_as_a_source_i n_other_contexts)

[JivinJeffJones]

It doesn't apply because it wasn't an argument.

According to Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law#Corollaries_and_usage), second paragraph, second sentence of this section, it is totally acceptable usage in this context. So there. :tongue10:

Pfff. You could have gone for fascists in general, or any henchmen of totalitarian regimes. But you went for Nazis.

[Wolf]

Everybody knows Wikipedia isn't a valid primary source! Here, I'll prove it: Reliability of Wikipedia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reliability_of_Wikipedia#Reliability_as_a_source_i n_other_contexts)
Want me to go quote the NHD? Do you? I didn't think so. You know it's right, I mean, it's a geek law of the internet, how couldn't it be right on Wikipedia? Go check the sources if you disagree with it.

Pfff. You could have gone for fascists in general, or any henchmen of totalitarian regimes. But you went for Nazis.
See, the problem is that if I answer this I'll just be explaining my jokes. I selected for a very specific reason and even linked to help those of you that missed it. I went all over the map, in case you didn't notice.

Again, this was never an argument, and I'm becoming hungrier. *grumbles*

[Schizm]

Say you are an engineer. As an INTP, I decide to use a certain tool for a different function. Does it piss you off? Or would you do the same?

[Ivy]

Want me to go quote the NHD? Do you? I didn't think so. You know it's right, I mean, it's a geek law of the internet, how couldn't it be right on Wikipedia? Go check the sources if you disagree with it.

*sadly* I don't even know what the NHD is. I just wanted to make a joke about there being a wiki on the reliability of wikipedia! Don't you want me to have ANY fun, Wolf?

[Recoleta]

So, how do I locate and control my own ISTJs?


Hmmm....raise them from birth and indoctrinate them with all kinds of traditions and whatever else you would want them to do while they are still young and impressionable?

Of course, if you're not willing to father your own children, you may have to go through the whole adoption process which is most certainly full of thrilling forms to fill out...and if you're especially lucky lots of ISTJ's who will tell you, "So you want to adopt this child/these children for your own controlling purposes?....I'll have to check with my boss to see if you would be a good candidate..." Happy hunting! :D

[RansomedbyFire]

So, how do I locate
How to locate them? Well, for starters, I'm right here.

and control my own ISTJs?

pay us.

[RansomedbyFire]

Say you are an engineer. As an INTP, I decide to use a certain tool for a different function. Does it piss you off? Or would you do the same?

Eh... if it was smart enough, I'd probably admire it. But if you go and try to do things the hard way (i.e. cutting wood with a screw driver...) I'd probably be slightly disgusted by your ignorance.

[Zergling]

I am in fact interested in the "How do you become the organization that an ISTJ takes the orders of" question, because a similar process probably works for other people, and it sounds like a good skill to have.

[Recoleta]

I am in fact interested in the "How do you become the organization that an ISTJ takes the orders of" question, because a similar process probably works for other people, and it sounds like a good skill to have.

This question really makes me laugh a bit (and this is not meant to be taken at all as a personal attack to Zergling or Wolf...so don't get mad with me). But for one, we are certainly not all the same...who you decide to follow or what you decide to believe in depends greatly on your personal beliefs and values (as with any person of any type...not just ISTJ's). Although ISTJ's are perhaps perceived as people who "just follow the rules because someone in authority said so" I find that statement absolutely ridiculous. We are not mindless drones who just take orders from those in "authority." We are perfectly capable of thinking for ourselves thankyouverymuch. It's just so funny that every single person reading this thread takes orders from someone else in some respect, and yet, it's the ISTJ's that always seem to get called out for it.

Now, on the one hand, if I willingly take a job and someone is paying me to perform a specific job/task that we have agreed upon I find it in my duty to hold up my end of the bargain to the best of my ability. A contract has been made...and as ya'll have read probably many times, "The ISTJ's word is his/her contract and we honor them." We are also fiercely loyal people...if you have made it into "our inner circle" it means we probably trust you with our lives. Our loyalties run deep, but we do not trust easily. Basically, so long as the person we made an agreement with upholds their end, we will do the same.

Now, as for that silly accusation that ISTJ's "are always doing the bidding of their masters...you know, the usual: exterminating jews, oppressing people, torturing and burning heretics at the stake, executing prisoners, checking identification papers, calling numbers at government facilities, burning witches, insisting you take your shoes off at security checkpoints, and always telling people that your superiors (or God(s)) told you to do it..." ummmmmmm I'm pretty sure that ISTJ's are not exclusive to that at all. And I'm sure you were joking around and all, but any person would do what the other person said if you were given the choice, "Do this or die." I watched a video about that kind of thing in my Research Methods Class...pretty interesting stuff BTW. I know the video is on YouTube, but I can't remember the name...maybe I'll look for it later and post the link.

[Schizm]

Eh... if it was smart enough, I'd probably admire it. But if you go and try to do things the hard way (i.e. cutting wood with a screw driver...) I'd probably be slightly disgusted by your ignorance.

ISTJ's tend to make great engineers. In other words, you are are smart enough :D . I was referring to this passage of the wikipedia entry which has always struck me as quite off.

As a practical example, consider the two types known as the introverted Thinkers (ISTP and INTP). They share dominant introverted Thinking, which gives them a solid interior grasp of the underlying principles of life. The ISTPs with their preference of extraverted Sensing, love understanding physical, mechanical systems. The INTPs, for their part, love understanding theoretical systems through their extraverted iNtuition. ISTPs are often very capable in using whatever materials are at hand in their building projects, using available tools to their full capabilities to serve their goals, through their extraverted Sensing. INTPs, at the same time, are often good at using physical tools, but here they also use their intuition to solve problems. An INTP is not shy about using a tool for something other than its original purpose, or creating a new tool to serve a desired purpose. INTPs cause no end of frustration to ISTPs ESTPs, ESTJs and ISTJs with this improvisation, as despite their best effort they cannot make the same intuitive leaps which come naturally to the INTP. On the other hand, they are quick to smugly point out when the INTP must stop in the middle of a project to puzzle over the previously discarded instructions, which the -ST- read at the start.[1]

[Schizm]

Are you familiar with the Enneagram? If so, what is your type on there? I will go head and ask the question I wanted to ask. If you are an Enneagram 5, do you readily discern what people are about to say before they say it?

[Sona]

So, how do I locate and control my own ISTJs?


Easy to control an ISTJ. Just get an extremely hot woman to seduce him. Works for me all the time.

[RansomedbyFire]

Are you familiar with the Enneagram? If so, what is your type on there? I will go head and ask the question I wanted to ask. If you are an Enneagram 5, do you readily discern what people are about to say before they say it?
I think I'm a 5. And, no, not really, not that I've noticed anyway.

Easy to control an ISTJ. Just get an extremely hot woman to seduce him. Works for me all the time.
Umm... I'm a female. And, no, that wouldn't work, even with a guy. I'm also a finance major though. That's why I suggested the pay.

[Wolf]

*chuckles to himself*

[Natrushka]

If I were going to compliment you on a piece of work you had just completed would you prefer that I told you: "That was well done. Good job." or "Wow, amazing! What a great job!"

[RansomedbyFire]

If I were going to compliment you on a piece of work you had just completed would you prefer that I told you: "That was well done. Good job." or "Wow, amazing! What a great job!"

Hmm... once again, I speak for myself... I think I'd probably prefer the latter, as long as it was sincere. Now, if that's gonna be fake, I prefer the first.

[Sahara]

Do you have a bad temper if people don't:

1 - Do things exactly your way

2 - Follow your beliefs (for example if you had a child who grew up to go against your beliefs, or a husband who turns his back on those beliefs later on in life)

3 - Follow the role you think they should

[Sahara]

Also, how do you view love?

What did it take for your INFP to convince you of their love for you?

[RansomedbyFire]

Do you have a bad temper if people don't:

1 - Do things exactly your way

2 - Follow your beliefs (for example if you had a child who grew up to go against your beliefs, or a husband who turns his back on those beliefs later on in life)

3 - Follow the role you think they should

Well, I used to be pretty hotheaded, but I kinda outgrew it. Now, #1 used to describe me as a kid, and I guess I still get frustrated at people sometimes; but, like I've said before, pretty much everything depends on specific circumstances.

If someone such as my husband turned his back on our beliefs, I would be rather distraught, and some of it probably would come off as anger.

Can you give an example of #3?

Also, how do you view love?
As you may have guessed, I'm wondering... can you be more specific?

What did it take for your INFP to convince you of their love for you?

Oh, it was rather apparent almost from the start. I don't think INFPs have all that much trouble making it apparent. I guess one of the first things that made me see it was how he was always there for me (I was going through some kind of rough times spiritually back then and had no one to talk to about it but him.) and how apparent he made it that he'd do anything for me. (I don't mean to sound sadistic.)

[Schizm]

How do you take your coffee?

[Wolf]

Is there a way to make ISTJs less annoying and offensive? Do they even realize they are? I mean, even their signatures piss me off. They seem to do it naturally...

[Ivy]

Dude.

[RansomedbyFire]

How do you take your coffee?

on ice, with quite a bit of milk and sugar

Is there a way to make ISTJs less annoying and offensive?
yeesh

Do they even realize they are?
not to the extent you're suggesting

I mean, even their signatures piss me off. They seem to do it naturally...

What's so bad about mine? I just get sick of being mistaken for a male on message boards and being hit on in real life by people who know I'm female.

[The_Liquid_Laser]

How do ISTJ's learn to deal with tactless INTJ's? :rolli:

[RansomedbyFire]

How do ISTJ's learn to deal with tactless INTJ's? :rolli:
Tactless INTJs? Well, I don't really know if I've met any INTJs 'cause I'm not too good at typing people yet. But... tactless? I thought that was the job of the ISTJ... *scratches head*

[proteanmix]

Is there a way to make ISTJs less annoying and offensive? Do they even realize they are? I mean, even their signatures piss me off. They seem to do it naturally...

See I would call this statement ironic, but google seems to say otherwise (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&defl=en&q=define:irony&sa=X&oi=glossary_definition&ct=title). I guess it could still be irony if you were referring to INTJs, but I wouldn't insult other INTJs like that, so I guess you just meant ironic for yourself.

Nice way of handling it Ransomed, I don't think I would've reacted so well.

[ptgatsby]

Tactless INTJs? Well, I don't really know if I've met any INTJs 'cause I'm not too good at typing people yet. But... tactless? I thought that was the job of the ISTJ... *scratches head*

No no, I'm pretty good at tactlessness, although I do admit, INTJs can be realllly awful (as I'm engaged to one, I speak on behalf of her tact.)

I think it's a I-T thing. All four types seem socially akward in different ways...

[Natrushka]

Hmm... once again, I speak for myself... I think I'd probably prefer the latter, as long as it was sincere. Now, if that's gonna be fake, I prefer the first.

I was curious. My husband doesn't respond to praise unless it involves superlatives. I have learned to adjust my vocabulary accordingly. He's also learned that when I say "good job" it means I am impressed, he knows I have high standars and I don't mince words.

Gratsi for the input.

[Natrushka]

How do ISTJ's learn to deal with tactless INTJ's? :rolli:

Bahahahahahah.


Yes.

[Jennifer]

...how apparent he made it that he'd do anything for me. (I don't mean to sound sadistic.)

No, no -- sadists are willing to do anything to you.

[Wolf]

I don't think I would've reacted so well.
It's one of the many things that drives me mad, too.

So...vacuous...so...numb...

Think Sona, proteanmix.

[proteanmix]

It's one of the many things that drives me mad, too.

So...vacuous...so...numb...

Think Sona, proteanmix.

Eh?

Are you doing alright?

[luaplogo]

Ok so I'm probably late for the party but here goes nothing. Have you as an ISTJ ever pretended to be a completely different personality type?

I know this girl who says she's an INTJ but she doesn't seem to mesh or be anything like the other 2 NT's I know, one is an INTJ and the other is INTP. After reading all of the ISTJ responses she seems to be a perfect match with you.

So is it possible for someone to put on that much of an act? Even if she can't do it successfully all of the time.

[anii]

Are ISTJ men ever warm and affectionate?

If so, when, how and how to draw it out?

[Beat]

Are ISTJ men ever warm and affectionate?

If so, when, how and how to draw it out?

:yes:


We can't just give you the code...

[anii]

*sigh* What do I have to do to get it?

[anii]

No, no -- sadists are willing to do anything to you.

That reminds me, is there a correlation between ISTJ - and sadism?

Are ISTJs drawn to BDSM?

And if so, do they tend to be Dominant?

[Beat]

I'm not really sexually active nor have I done much exploring/experimenting around in the sexual field but I've never been intrigued by the idea of S&M myself. But that's just one guy's view on the matter.

And in response to your question about being affectionate and warm, are you talking within a romantic relationship? Assuming you are, really all it is to me is being comfortable and secure within the relationship. Not naturally are we touchy-feely all the time, but at least for myself, just like anyone else, I desire being physically close to someone and all that that entails (hugging, cuddling, kissing and all that fluffy stuff). From what I've seen in my own life and what I know to be true, if you feel like someone is apprehensive or aloof, the natural tendency is to withdraw as well because you don't know what the person is feeling and what to make of it. This doesn't necessarily mean game-over. It just means you should make the move. :D

I'm not sure I answered the question in the context you intended. I can try my best to answer again if you want to be more specific.

[anii]

What about the code?

[Beat]

It's down, right, left, left, triangle, square, triangle, circle.

Don't tell a soul!

:run:

[anii]

Thank you for your honest response.

:)

[2XtremeENFP]

My question is ... seeing as how ISTJs base things on previous experiences. How do you convince them that the past has changed? How can you get them to understand that situations can change from how they once were?

[Recoleta]

You're probably gonna have to be more specific with your question because I'm not entirely sure what you're asking.

To think of a hypothetical situation: If you're talking about a past lover that cheated on the ISTJ (but not you), and now you are in a relationship with them, and they are insecure and scared of being cheated on again or something then the way to go about changing their mind and getting them to trust you would be extreme consistency on your part. Really, you need consistent proof if you're gonna change an ISTJ's mind about something.

However, let's say that you cheated on the ISTJ, and the ISTJ left you because of it, and you're trying to get him/her back and convice him/her that the situation has changed. The chances of you reconciling are likely 0%...really, even if they eventually forgive you, you will never have their trust again.

If, in your question, you were talking in general about how to change our minds about something...then I'd just say consistency and reassurance...but both of these things have to make logical sense, otherwise we still won't believe you.

[2XtremeENFP]

Those were good examples and it definately helped me understand more.

A specific example would be a failed past relationship. An ISTJ refusing to believe that a person has changed because of their past experience in a relationship with them. It's as if an ISTJ doesn't allow a person to grow if they knew what they were like before.
None of this deals with cheating, but rather with immaturity and personal differences.

How can you convince an ISTJ that a person can change from how they used to be in the past?

[Recoleta]

Ok, thanks for clarifying a little.

To answer your question, a good motto for ISTJ's is "Actions speak louder than words." I think that it would be a good idea to first directly talk to your ISTJ and let them know how you feel and what you're thinking (we can be horribly bad at reading people and guessing at their feelings).

Second piece of advice is to practice patience. The ISTJ will likely remain cold and untelling of their feelings, but trust me, a lot goes on under the surface that you never see. Beneath the cold exterior we are weighing pros and cons to infinity...this is where extreme consistency can only help you and where our rigid parts start to chip away. Don't put on a "show" of consistent behavior when you are around the ISTJ, you really actually have to be consistent across the many levels of your life (While spontaneity is lots of fun, unstable people are not). If you're telling me one thing, but news gets back to me that you have contradicted your word then I will not be inclined to believe a word you say. What I'm saying is you have to be REAL and honest with ISTJ's. It's totally ok to have faults/immaturity to work on, but be open and honest about them. Don't try to hide them from the ISTJ, because if they find out later that you act one way around them, and a different way around other people you will likely be viewed as hypocritical...which will make it impossible for you to have a deep realtionship with them (especially of the romantic kind).

Having patience is really important, because you have to allow us time to collect "data" and weigh the pros and cons (as in, you have to let us decide that you/the situation really has changed). Don't come jumping at us and asking for answers too quickly or too often. A little nudge now and again is ok, but don't be too aggressive. Find a way to ease yourself back into their life, make yourself visible and present, and then wait...let them come to you.

Really, consistency and time....that's all it takes. Also, noticing the small details will help you out too. ISTJ's don't look for big, flamboyant displays of affection, it's really in the small, thoughtful things that get us.

[2XtremeENFP]

Thanks so much, Recoleta! That makes a lot of sense to me now.

It is tough not knowing what exactly is going on deep down with them, there is always so much thinking going on that I am unaware of!

From all of this information, is it valid to say that if an ISTJ is on the fence about something, it's better to let them figure it out than to try and convince them otherwise?

[Recoleta]

Well, it really depends on the dynamics of the situation. There are times when I like input (usually from a safe 3rd party), and there are times that I just like to be left alone to reach a decision. Personally, as a female, I usually confide in people that I trust (my best friends and my parents), but I can't say that that is something male ISTJs often do.

I think you should just make sure your ISTJ knows where you stand, and then back off the topic and let them think about it. Bring up the topic in a serious way...like try and have a good conversation about it, and then tell them that they don't have to have an answer now, but ask them to come to you when they are ready, and let them know that you'll be waiting for them to decide. By doing that you're appealing to their sense of duty and plus you're leaving something open and without closure. ISTJs like to be sure where they stand with people, and not having closure can stress an ISTJ out. Once you make your position clear, I think it's best to just stand back and let them do all their calculations, but in the mean time, stay present and consistent in their life.

Good luck!

[2XtremeENFP]

Thanks so much! You're awesome!

[Homini Lupus]

My question is could you define how does Si as dominant function works? How does it relate with the past, the present and the possible futures? About the past: what's important in past experiences (perceived things, rationalisations of past experiences, feelings...)? How does the past relate with the problems to solve here and now?

[RooDee]

Those were good examples and it definately helped me understand more.

A specific example would be a failed past relationship. An ISTJ refusing to believe that a person has changed because of their past experience in a relationship with them. It's as if an ISTJ doesn't allow a person to grow if they knew what they were like before.
None of this deals with cheating, but rather with immaturity and personal differences.

How can you convince an ISTJ that a person can change from how they used to be in the past?

Proof that will take time. IMO, I could see change in another person through maturity and personal differences, but if it was cheating, hell no.

[batumi]

Ok, thanks for clarifying a little.

To answer your question, a good motto for ISTJ's is "Actions speak louder than words." I think that it would be a good idea to first directly talk to your ISTJ and let them know how you feel and what you're thinking (we can be horribly bad at reading people and guessing at their feelings).

Second piece of advice is to practice patience. The ISTJ will likely remain cold and untelling of their feelings, but trust me, a lot goes on under the surface that you never see. Beneath the cold exterior we are weighing pros and cons to infinity...this is where extreme consistency can only help you and where our rigid parts start to chip away. Don't put on a "show" of consistent behavior when you are around the ISTJ, you really actually have to be consistent across the many levels of your life (While spontaneity is lots of fun, unstable people are not). If you're telling me one thing, but news gets back to me that you have contradicted your word then I will not be inclined to believe a word you say. What I'm saying is you have to be REAL and honest with ISTJ's. It's totally ok to have faults/immaturity to work on, but be open and honest about them. Don't try to hide them from the ISTJ, because if they find out later that you act one way around them, and a different way around other people you will likely be viewed as hypocritical...which will make it impossible for you to have a deep realtionship with them (especially of the romantic kind).

Having patience is really important, because you have to allow us time to collect "data" and weigh the pros and cons (as in, you have to let us decide that you/the situation really has changed). Don't come jumping at us and asking for answers too quickly or too often. A little nudge now and again is ok, but don't be too aggressive. Find a way to ease yourself back into their life, make yourself visible and present, and then wait...let them come to you.

Really, consistency and time....that's all it takes. Also, noticing the small details will help you out too. ISTJ's don't look for big, flamboyant displays of affection, it's really in the small, thoughtful things that get us.

Ok, how soon can you move in with me as a personal advisor?