SJ's and tradition.

[Athenian200]

What sort of institutions do you value, and how would you describe your reasons for valuing them? Can you think of any situation that would cause you to reevaluate your loyalty to a given tradition or institution that is generally accepted? How was your internal standard of what is right formed over time? Do you feel that you know where it came from, or does it just seem to have existed within you all along?

Also, can you describe in some detail what you would probably do during a typical day at work/school without describing a particular day?

[Shimpei]

What sort of institutions do you value, and how would you describe your reasons for valuing them? Can you think of any situation that would cause you to reevaluate your loyalty to a given tradition or institution that is generally accepted? How was your internal standard of what is right formed over time? Do you feel that you know where it came from, or does it just seem to have existed within you all along?

Also, can you describe in some detail what you would probably do during a typical day at work/school without describing a particular day?

It's not tradition itself that I value. It's structure (i.e. time structured) which is based on careful planning. That doesn't mean I'm inflexible but I really don't like those surprises/changes that cross my previous plans. I'm adaptable and I've learnt to go with the flow in some respect.
As for loyalty to any tradition or institution - I respect authority when it doesn't break any major human rights/values.
Tradition can easily grow into ritualism and formalism and I really despise these things.

[Sahara]

It's not tradition itself that I value. It's structure (i.e. time structured) which is based on careful planning. That doesn't mean I'm inflexible but I really don't like those surprises/changes that cross my previous plans. I'm adaptable and I've learnt to go with the flow in some respect.
As for loyalty to any tradition or institution - I respect authority when it doesn't break any major human rights/values.
Tradition can easily grow into ritualism and formalism and I really despise these things.


I'm so glad you said that, this stereotype image of the SJ being all traditional, has made me so confused about my best friend who is an ISFJ, she is about as untraditional as you can get, was a traveller, a hippy, an anarchist, all those things that SJ's are not described as.

So it's totally possible for an SJ to create their own traditional twist on life?

[FDG]

The old FDG's adagio says, every SJ that doesn't behave like a stereotypical SJ will be erroneously typed as such by the haters. That's the source of the negative stereotype.

[Athenian200]

It's not tradition itself that I value. It's structure (i.e. time structured) which is based on careful planning. That doesn't mean I'm inflexible but I really don't like those surprises/changes that cross my previous plans. I'm adaptable and I've learnt to go with the flow in some respect.
As for loyalty to any tradition or institution - I respect authority when it doesn't break any major human rights/values.
Tradition can easily grow into ritualism and formalism and I really despise these things.

You actually sound far more unconventional in your views than I do. Let me supply my own answers to my questions.

What sort of institutions do you value, and how would you describe your reasons for valuing them?

I value the more secular institutions, and I do so because this ensures community cohesiveness and contributes positively towards all of the individuals served by the institution.

Can you think of any situation that would cause you to reevaluate your loyalty to a given tradition or institution that is generally accepted?

Yes. If it no longer served it's original purpose adequately, and/or no longer benefited the individuals in it whom I valued, I would change my approach.


How was your internal standard of what is right formed over time? Do you feel that you know where it came from, or does it just seem to have existed within you all along?

It was formed from careful study of the issues involved from several sources, and seeing what sort of agreements existed in those sources. Eventually I was just able to see inconsistencies with my idea of what is correct. My awareness of spelling, grammar, and syntax is one example. It was partially innate, as things seem to "hit" me in a certain way as being potentially reasonable or unreasonable. But I prefer to research and explain why something isn't reasonable.

Also, can you describe in some detail what you would probably do during a typical day at work/school without describing a particular day?

Yes. I'll describe my typical behavior last year as an example. I would set my alarm for 7:00am, and hit the snooze button about three or four times until it was between 7:30 or 7:45. First I would take a shower lasting between 50-70 minutes, and get dressed, being careful to remember to put on my I.D. badge. Then I would go to the refrigerator, and get a breakfast sandwich from the freezer, folding it in a paper towel and cooking it for 3 minutes and 15 seconds. While cooking it, I would take a package of peanut butter crackers and place it in my backpack. I would then go to the stereo and play the same CD I played every morning, skipping to track 2. I would then sit and wait for my mother to show up, and she usually appeared between 8:42 and 8:46, and I became anxious if she appeared before or after those times. Then I would take my backpack, and go to school.

Note that I only behave like this when I have outside commitments, and I'm usually less predictable when I don't have a specific goal in mind. It's the schedule that makes me rigid, I become obsessed with time, procedure, and schedules when I have a specific place to be.

My assumption was that all J's had this tendency, and I wanted to see how SJ's differed from NJ's in their approach to traditions and institutions.

[Shimpei]

So it's totally possible for an SJ to create their own traditional twist on life?

Absolutely. But anyway, who isn't like that?

[Sahara]

Absolutely. But anyway, who isn't like that?

MBTI Stereotpyes? :D

[Shimpei]

Yes. I'll describe my typical behavior last year as an example.

It seems I'm a bit more spontaneous than you. But I put it down to the fact that I have two little kids I have to adapt to on an almost minutely basis.

[cafe]

My brother and his wife are religious SJs and though they can sometimes stick to orthodoxy and convention for it's own sake, the thing about traditions they seem to get into are of the celebratory type. Birthdays are always remembered and acknowledged. Christmas celebrations are attended to with shopping done in advance to get the best deals on gifts. These things are about family and making one another feel loved and appreciated and the children feel life is predictable and secure.

They are not mindless drones doing things because that's how they've always been done. They are trying to make life special and nurturing for the people they care about. I admire it, though I'm not so good at it myself. I'm not that great at planning ahead.

[Shimpei]

Christmas celebrations are attended to with shopping done in advance to get the best deals on gifts.

That sounds familiar. I mean ... last year I bought the Christmas presents for my girls in September. :)

[Athenian200]

My brother and his wife are religious SJs and though they can sometimes stick to orthodoxy and convention for it's own sake, the thing about traditions they seem to get into are of the celebratory type. Birthdays are always remembered and acknowledged. Christmas celebrations are attended to with shopping done in advance to get the best deals on gifts. These things are about family and making one another feel loved and appreciated and the children feel life is predictable and secure.

So their goal in adhering to a tradition is more informal and based on people/the physical environment than mine is. I was also trying to figure out if SJ's tended to be more oriented by space, and NJ's by time, because I was checking the assumption from Socionics.

They are not mindless drones doing things because that's how they've always been done. They are trying to make life special and nurturing for the people they care about. I admire it, though I'm not so good at it myself. I'm not that great at planning ahead.

Did I imply that they were? I never said that. I just read type descriptions, get a mental picture of what the types are like, and then want to test ideas about them to see what they look like, so I can refine these ideas.

[cafe]

Did I imply that they were? I never said that. I just read type descriptions, get a mental picture of what the types are like, and then want to test ideas about them to see what they look like, so I can refine these ideas.
Wasn't directed at you but at a common stereotype.

[girlnamedbless]

When you ask why I value a tradition, I think of holidays. I really don't like change, and that's why I think keep a few things constant each year helps... like for example, always watching fireworks with my best friend on the 4th of July or taking my mom out to her favorite restaurant on her birthday. Ever since I was a little kid, I always wanted to celebrate holidays the same way we did last year. I also value holidays/traditions because they bring me closer to people. I really don't remember "developing" any sort of value for it.. as far as I can remember, I've always been like this. Oh yeah, I don't really celebrate Christmas, Easter, or Valentine's Day (I really think that vday is stupid, but that's another story...)


Well.. my alarm goes off at 6:00 AM, I hit the snooze until about 6:30, listen to music and get ready. Then I probably eat something and leave the house at 7:30, get to school around 7:45 and sit in my classroom for 15 minutes. In between classes I just listen to my iPod and sit and do homework. When I get home I eat, call up my best friend to see if we're doing anything, or if I have work, I just hang out at home until I have to work. When I'm not working I'm probably hanging out with my friends or working out. Dinner isn't that big of a deal to me... I just eat whenever I get home, but half the time I eat outside of the house anyway. Before I go to bed I usually listen to music, go on AIM, or write in my journal and I try to go to bed before midnight.

[lastrailway]

.l.. my alarm goes off at 6:00 AM, I hit the snooze until about 6:30, listen to music and get ready. Then I probably eat something and leave the house at 7:30...

And why on earth do you put the alarm one and half hour before the time you need to be going?????
I wish I could do that. If I ever need to wake up before 8:00, I need like one million alarms ringing all around the room :)

[Athenian200]

And why on earth do you put the alarm one and half hour before the time you need to be going?????
I wish I could do that. If I ever need to wake up before 8:00, I need like one million alarms ringing all around the room :)

We're J's, silly. I do practically the same thing, and I'm always nervous, impatient, and trying to take care of everything when I have a place to be. It really drives my P mother insane, who doesn't think we need to leave or hurry before ten minutes before it's time to go, and I feel crazy if I have to cut something that close.

[cafe]

At our house it's the other way around. I get up at the last minute and hit the ground running and the INTP sets his alarm early enough to get ready for work at a fairly leisurely pace.

[Sahara]

We're J's, silly. I do practically the same thing, and I'm always nervous, impatient, and trying to take care of everything when I have a place to be. It really drives my P mother insane, who doesn't think we need to leave or hurry before ten minutes before it's time to go, and I feel crazy if I have to cut something that close.


This is weird, as I do the exact same thing as girlnamedbless, I set the alarm for 30 minutes before I need to wake up and use snooze for that 30 minutes. I am never late to the appointments I keep, and I get organised for those things the evening before. :shock:

I also feel crazy if I haven;t left myself enough time to take my time.

[Helfeather]

It's not so much as traditional...

To me, as long as it's efficient, I will coincide with it, if it has become obsolete, it's time to adapt new methods of doing things.

Personally, I don't like tradition if it doesn't work towards a certain purpose.

EDIT:

And what's w/ this alarm clock thing? ><;

If it helps, I set my alarm clock such that I finish all the required tasks w/ sufficient cushion time in case of delays.

[Ivy]

I'm so glad you said that, this stereotype image of the SJ being all traditional, has made me so confused about my best friend who is an ISFJ, she is about as untraditional as you can get, was a traveller, a hippy, an anarchist, all those things that SJ's are not described as.

So it's totally possible for an SJ to create their own traditional twist on life?

Was she born into an untraditional family? The only way I'm able to make ISFJ fit for me is if I take into account my unusual upbringing. I kind of like to do the opposite of what's expected of me sometimes, and question things that others take for granted, but I think I learned that from my mother. So, in an ironic twist, I may be using rebellion as my tradition.