Insomnia--Suggestions?

[Recluse]

I am seeking a cure that doesn't require a trip to the doctor.

Incidentally, small people shouldn't take Milk of Magnesia in its largest dose in the hope of "speeding things up." I'm presently making my usual kitchen-bathroom-computer circuit frequently enough to qualify as circuit training. But at least I'm getting some exercise.

[Usehername]

don't go to bed until you're SLEEPY tired. i was physically/mentally/emotionally exhausted when i was an insomniac so i would go to bed at like 9 pm and not fall asleep until 1-2 am and then wake up 1 hour before my alarm:

once i learned to stay up until i was sleepy and then wake up at a regular time every day (including weekends) i kicked the insomnia that i had for a full year at least.

[runvardh]

get laid or down a night cap (the latter tends to be my only choice these days)

edit: and my answer was not a joke

[cafe]

melatonin

[Zergling]

Use the time for something useful.

[ygolo]

don't go to bed until you're SLEEPY tired. i was physically/mentally/emotionally exhausted when i was an insomniac so i would go to bed at like 9 pm and not fall asleep until 1-2 am and then wake up 1 hour before my alarm:

once i learned to stay up until i was sleepy and then wake up at a regular time every day (including weekends) i kicked the insomnia that i had for a full year at least.

If I did that (and I still do that sometimes) I would be up for almost 48 hours.

I'm an insomniac myself. The only thing I can say is think of it as sleep-depravation training and soldier on.

[ptgatsby]

I've always been an insomniac... Not quite full fledged all the time, but I did have a full blown disorder for a year or two. Besides that, never slept well even as a baby (the stories my parents tell... egad).

It really comes down to why you can't sleep. If it is just behavioural, you can train yourself out of it really quickly. However, if it's a mix, or just biological, nothing you do will matter at all. You will literally take things that should knock you out... but they'll just make you drowsy - ie: drugged. If that's the case, you'll be stuck getting some very powerful things that practically induce sleep... and you have a very high chance getting addicted to them.

In any case, the three things I can suggest;

1) Use your bed for sleep. Nothing else but sleeping. When you go to bed, if you can't fall asleep within x time (normally from 10-30min), you get up and do something tedious. You don't read or anything similar. Nothing that engages your mind. And to emphasise this one more time - do not do anything else in bed - no reading, no napping, no watching TV... maybe sex, but that's about it.

2) Excersize, but give time before you go to bed - more than 2 hours. This works because stress and an active mind are bad news for sleeping, but the excersize does cause your body to wind down - after the high. It shouldn't be intensive, a good 30 minute walk or anything similar can be enough.

3) Create a routine for going to bed. This works well with #1, so it should start with or after you have made your bed your sleep area. Always do the same things in the same order for 10-15 minutes before going to sleep. Try very very hard not to interrupt this.

There was other stuff that the sleep clinic suggested, but I remember these as the core ones.

[Recluse]

Thanks for all the advice! Will try in random order.

Well, except for sex, since that would require losing my loner Recluse moniker, and then I'd have to think up a new user name.

[Mercurial]

I created a place within my mind I use to escape pain, or (more frequently) go to sleep.

I took an endless grassy plain with nothing man-made in it and populated it with a Tennessee Walker mare I bonded to a long time ago. I fade out my perceptions of where I am and just sort of mentally slide sideways into that place.

If you try it, build it one element at a time, and keep it simple. No other people or technology, no more than one animal. Start with what you're standing on in this place and expand outward.

I wrote this poem awhile back about it:

Air

Eyes closed
I ride white noise
To my midnight key.
Amidst low, lush green
She waits, munching geraniums;
A solo patch of other color
Marking the severed and buried.
Black-trimmed chestnut
Solidifies, chased by
Equine scent and whuffed greeting.
Muse of lucidity,
She keeps Daedalus silent
As I twist flows,
Ascending to sleep.

M:>

[Recluse]

I would like to get over this insomnia; it's sapping my energy and making me want to crack bad jokes. I can't focus on the things that are important to me.

I did manage to sleep for a full five hours last night. Perhaps I am being impatient. Tonight I'll try the Naem Visualization Technique, with imagery of my Manx cat, Waylon (who hopefully will refrain from his usual rollicking and bouncing about).

[lastrailway]

...

...

I hope something of these works for you. I have DSPS (Delayed sleep phase syndrome) and have tried all kind of things (including sleeping pills, exercice, trying to change my sleeping circle by sleeping each day half an hour later, etc). Pills do the trick for me, but it is all about how willing are you to take sleeping pills practically every day?
I usually go to bed no earlier than 3:30-4 a.m., and thankfully I have a very flexible timetable at work, because before 8:30-9 a.m. I cannot open my eyes, I don't hear anything, etc. Some days I just stay sleeping up to 10 or even 11 a.m., and go to work really very late.
I am practically hyperactive at night (unlike the rest of the day), totally unable to sleep during day and no matter how tired am I, there is no way for me to go to bed in any reasonable time

[Schizm]

warm milk=tryptophan

melatonin

marijuana :happy:

valerian root

[Zergling]

You could also try not eating anything later in the day, at least with me, if I don't eat at certain times at a day, I'll get sleepy a few hours later.

[ygolo]

I hope something of these works for you. I have DSPS (Delayed sleep phase syndrome) and have tried all kind of things (including sleeping pills, exercice, trying to change my sleeping circle by sleeping each day half an hour later, etc). Pills do the trick for me, but it is all about how willing are you to take sleeping pills practically every day?
I usually go to bed no earlier than 3:30-4 a.m., and thankfully I have a very flexible timetable at work, because before 8:30-9 a.m. I cannot open my eyes, I don't hear anything, etc. Some days I just stay sleeping up to 10 or even 11 a.m., and go to work really very late.
I am practically hyperactive at night (unlike the rest of the day), totally unable to sleep during day and no matter how tired am I, there is no way for me to go to bed in any reasonable time


Have you tried becoming bi-phasic (a long nap plus a shorted deep sleep split into different times)?

You could shift you nap-time, and you sleep time both (esp. if you split 5-slppe, 3-Nap), then flip which one is you nap, and which on is your sleep when you are about shift so that normal working day is gone.

It's good in theory, I think.

[runvardh]

marijuana :happy:


One of my roomies found an old clock in a cooler he picked up, we set it to 4:20 and it now hangs in the computer room, :D

[Natrushka]

1) Use your bed for sleep. Nothing else but sleeping. When you go to bed, if you can't fall asleep within x time (normally from 10-30min), you get up and do something tedious. You don't read or anything similar. Nothing that engages your mind. And to emphasise this one more time - do not do anything else in bed - no reading, no napping, no watching TV... maybe sex, but that's about it.

2) Excersize, but give time before you go to bed - more than 2 hours. This works because stress and an active mind are bad news for sleeping, but the excersize does cause your body to wind down - after the high. It shouldn't be intensive, a good 30 minute walk or anything similar can be enough.

3) Create a routine for going to bed. This works well with #1, so it should start with or after you have made your bed your sleep area. Always do the same things in the same order for 10-15 minutes before going to sleep. Try very very hard not to interrupt this.

There was other stuff that the sleep clinic suggested, but I remember these as the core ones.

Those are good sleep hygiene suggestions, pt.

Another you don't see mentioned much, but bears talking about, is when you go to sleep. If you can, get to bed by 10 pm. Normal circadiam rhythmes (something lastrailway doesn't have) dictate when you experience different kinds of sleep - it's not enough you get X hours of sleep, it's also important you get the right kind of sleep. And the right (read important) kind of sleep is deep slow wave sleep, which happens earlier in the night.

I can go to bed at midnight and sleep for 10 hours and wake up feeling like I'm hungover and exhausted. If I get to sleep by 10 PM I wake up feeling great after seven hours.

The sleep disorder channel (http://www.sleepdisorderchannel.com/stages/)has more information, for those interested.

Another supplement that can help is magensium, btw. Frequent nightly wakings has been linked to depleted magensium stores. Epsoms salt baths pre bedtime can do wonders (off topic but this can work really well for fibromyalgia sufferers).

[Schizm]

One of my roomies found an old clock in a cooler he picked up, we set it to 4:20 and it now hangs in the computer room, :D

how depressing. :violin:

[Mercurial]

It's good in theory, I think.

Oh, we're your experiment for something you read now. Neat.:thelook:

[eleph ingratiate]

a bullet.

[ygolo]

Oh, we're your experiment for something you read now. Neat.:thelook:

Just a suggestion. :cry:

[Schizm]

OP'er

Do you have bruxism? You should check and see if you have marks that indicate you are grinding your teeth at night.

[lastrailway]

Have you tried becoming bi-phasic (a long nap plus a shorted deep sleep split into different times)?

You could shift you nap-time, and you sleep time both (esp. if you split 5-slppe, 3-Nap), then flip which one is you nap, and which on is your sleep when you are about shift so that normal working day is gone.

It's good in theory, I think.

Really good in theory :)
The thing is, I cannot sleep at all during the day. Whenever I try, I just stay on the bed without sleeping and thus becoming more and more nervous.

[Veneti]

I am seeking a cure that doesn't require a trip to the doctor.

Incidentally, small people shouldn't take Milk of Magnesia in its largest dose in the hope of "speeding things up." I'm presently making my usual kitchen-bathroom-computer circuit frequently enough to qualify as circuit training. But at least I'm getting some exercise.

Don't drink caffine at all. Many soda's etc contain caffine esp Coke! (Its way more powerful than about 5 coffees).

Make sure you deal with all your issues (bills etc) in the morning so you don't think about everything when you are going to sleep.

Exercise lots, that gets you tired.

Keep regular sleep time patterns then your body will get into sync.

Don't oversleep. Only go to bed when you actually feel tired.

Thats all I can think about at the moment.... my issue is more about not getting enough sleep!

[MadamI'madaM]

Don't drink caffine at all. Many soda's etc contain caffine esp Coke! (Its way more powerful than about 5 coffees).

Make sure you deal with all your issues (bills etc) in the morning so you don't think about everything when you are going to sleep.

Exercise lots, that gets you tired.

Keep regular sleep time patterns then your body will get into sync.

Don't oversleep. Only go to bed when you actually feel tired.

Thats all I can think about at the moment.... my issue is more about not getting enough sleep!

not to be quarrelsome, but you really do just say things without knowing, don't you?

[cafe]

not to be quarrelsome, but you really do just say things without knowing, don't you?
Maybe they make the coffee really weak or the Coke really strong England?

[spirilis]

I don't think I've ever been caffeine-high off soda before... OTOH 1 coffee has me wired neurotic, with indigestion to boot!

[Veneti]

not to be quarrelsome, but you really do just say things without knowing, don't you?

Hmm... You seem to have the usual negative answer to everything.

If you know the scientific basis then state it. That’s the problem, ready to argue against but ready to provide nothing.

Using a rough popular science approach, I get kept awake by one can of diet coke consumed after 7pm yet three cups of coffee has no effect on my sleep patterns.

Looking at the evidence (As you didn't provide any) it seems that on a volume basis coffee and coke are about the same caffeine wise.

Just maybe then, it’s not the Caffeine.. Maybe it’s the E150d, E211, Phenylalanine or more probably the sweeteners as I don't take sugar with coffee/tea. Hence, I'll change my assertion; don't drink soda, its full of "E numbers and sweeteners that will keep you awake"

I guess you're about to tell the world how your drink is the fountain of all youth and will save the world? Incidentally, there's a growing movement to regulate these so called (usually energy) drinks as they are having a provable hyperactivity effect on children.

[lastrailway]

...If you know the scientific basis then state it. That’s the problem, ready to argue against but ready to provide nothing...

By: National Soft Drink Association, US Food and Drug Administration, Bunker and McWilliams, Pepsi, Slim-Fast

How Much Caffeine in Drinks -- Coffee, Tea, Soft Drinks -- Caffeine Content (http://wilstar.com/caffeine.htm)

But actually I agree with you. The preservatives (the Es) and the sugars added in coca cola, etc., increase the metabolism quickly and they add to the insomnia

[Veneti]

not to be quarrelsome, but you really do just say things without knowing, don't you?

Actually, looking at your avatar...

Your product states that it is a "fat incinerator"

Just under what scientific basis has this been proved?

REALLY, you do just advertise things without knowing them, don't you.

As lastrailway (correctly) pointed out, E numbers increase the metabolism so you probably will say this is the so called "fat incinerator".. however, under that basis perhaps Smoking should be advertised as a weight loss product as well.

[MadamI'madaM]

Actually, looking at your avatar...

Your product states that it is a "fat incinerator"

Just under what scientific basis has this been proved?

REALLY, you do just advertise things without knowing them, don't you.

As lastrailway (correctly) pointed out, E numbers increase the metabolism so you probably will say this is the so called "fat incinerator".. however, under that basis perhaps Smoking should be advertised as a weight loss product as well.

I don't give a fuck about my avatar


redline is just something i drink for a cheap high

you actually typed something glaringly inaccurate

EDIT: you must drink dark roast coffee, because most of the caffeine gets cooked out

besides, you didn't say anything about findings in that post, just claimed that coca cola contains five times as many mg caffeine as coffee

completely untrue

[ptgatsby]

By: National Soft Drink Association, US Food and Drug Administration, Bunker and McWilliams, Pepsi, Slim-Fast

How Much Caffeine in Drinks -- Coffee, Tea, Soft Drinks -- Caffeine Content (http://wilstar.com/caffeine.htm)

But actually I agree with you. The preservatives (the Es) and the sugars added in coca cola, etc., increase the metabolism quickly and they add to the insomnia

Perhaps so, but the effect is fundamentally different and lasts a long time (roughly 5 hours after ingestion for normal people, up to 15 hours depending on other factors).

Pop has roughly half the amount of caffeine than coffee and is not really comparable. The only case that I know of where sugar would have an equivalent effect is in fluctuating blood sugar levels.

Not that I advise having tons of sugar before going to bed but the link between "hyper" and sugar doesn't exist the way we think it does, if at all.

[lastrailway]

Perhaps so, but the effect is fundamentally different and lasts a long time (roughly 5 hours after ingestion for normal people, up to 15 hours depending on other factors).

Pop has roughly half the amount of caffeine than coffee and is not really comparable. The only case that I know of where sugar would have an equivalent effect is in fluctuating blood sugar levels.

Not that I advise having tons of sugar before going to bed but the link between "hyper" and sugar doesn't exist the way we think it does, if at all.

Ah, no, I didn't want to imply that the effects of caffeine and sugar are comparable. The metabolic action is totally different (normal, for two totally different molecules) and, of course, sugar is not likely to cause insomnia to an average person. What I meant is that if somebody does have sleeping disorders, a drink with caffeine and sugar is more likely to add to the insomnia.

Ah, and a detail, probably without any importance: caffeine effects do not last 5 hours. Actually the half-life of caffeine in the organism in about 3 hours, that is the amount of caffeine (and its effects, obviously) is constantly decreased and in roughly 3 hours the amound (and the effect) is half of the inicial. This, plus that the digestive system needs about 0,5 hours to completely digest caffeine would give an effect half an hour after ingestion and for 3 hours more

[Sahara]

On the whole coke vs coffee thing, I can actually drink a coffee and fall asleep, but coke keeps me awake, infact I never drink coke because I dislike the taste but when I have I have found it kept me awake.

Coffee is seriously my last drink of the day, and I am flat out not long after.

When I had insomnia nothing worked putting me to sleep, my bedroom is a haven of serenity yet I couldn't sleep in it. Too much was going on in my head to slow down long enough to sleep and I didn't like the sleeping tablets as I have kids and think it would be dangerous to be that out of it.

[lastrailway]

On the whole coke vs coffee thing, I can actually drink a coffee and fall asleep, but coke keeps me awake, infact I never drink coke because I dislike the taste but when I have I have found it kept me awake.

Coffee is seriously my last drink of the day, and I am flat out not long after.

When I had insomnia nothing worked putting me to sleep, my bedroom is a haven of serenity yet I couldn't sleep in it. Too much was going on in my head to slow down long enough to sleep and I didn't like the sleeping tablets as I have kids and think it would be dangerous to be that out of it.

Sleeping pills is the only thing that can make me sleep in a reasonable hour, but I hardly ever take any.
On the coffee thing: what caffeine really does is increasing the levels of dopanime and possibly epinephrine. Both effects are acute. That is, in a long term, consuption of caffeine has rather chronical effects - the organism slightly increases the usual dopamine levels to be able to moderate caffeine effects.
And, having said that, I 'd like to add that I am a perfect example of a coffee-maniac. Coffee is the only liquid think besides water that ever crosses my mouth and I'd be more confortable if I were told to give up water than coffee

[Sahara]

And, having said that, I 'd like to add that I am a perfect example of a coffee-maniac. Coffee is the only liquid think besides water that ever crosses my mouth and I'd be more confortable if I were told to give up water than coffee

http://smileyjungle.com/smilies/agreement9.gif Except I add tea to that list, what with being British and all. ;)

[lastrailway]

http://smileyjungle.com/smilies/agreement9.gif Except I add tea to that list, what with being British and all. ;)

Sure, the five'o'clock thing :)
I drink tea if I am forced to. I have to add like 5 or 6 spoonfulls of sugar to distract me for the taste, especially if it has herbs in it (menthol and such should be banned of this planet)
In my coffee, I cannot stand even the idea of having sugar

[Sahara]

Sure, the five'o'clock thing :)
I drink tea if I am forced to. I have to add like 5 or 6 spoonfulls of sugar to distract me for the taste, especially if it has herbs in it (menthol and such should be banned of this planet)
In my coffee, I cannot stand even the idea of having sugar

I thought I took alot of sugar but yikes that is alot.

[lastrailway]

I thought I took alot of sugar but yikes that is alot.

I was about to answer about my sugar preferences, but I think I have this very bad habit to totally derail every possible thread, so I thought I 'd better no :D

[Crabapple]

It really comes down to why you can't sleep. If it is just behavioural, you can train yourself out of it really quickly. However, if it's a mix, or just biological, nothing you do will matter at all. You will literally take things that should knock you out... but they'll just make you drowsy - ie: drugged. If that's the case, you'll be stuck getting some very powerful things that practically induce sleep... and you have a very high chance getting addicted to them.

In any case, the three things I can suggest;

1) Use your bed for sleep. Nothing else but sleeping. When you go to bed, if you can't fall asleep within x time (normally from 10-30min), you get up and do something tedious. You don't read or anything similar. Nothing that engages your mind. And to emphasise this one more time - do not do anything else in bed - no reading, no napping, no watching TV... maybe sex, but that's about it.

2) Excersize, but give time before you go to bed - more than 2 hours. This works because stress and an active mind are bad news for sleeping, but the excersize does cause your body to wind down - after the high. It shouldn't be intensive, a good 30 minute walk or anything similar can be enough.

3) Create a routine for going to bed. This works well with #1, so it should start with or after you have made your bed your sleep area. Always do the same things in the same order for 10-15 minutes before going to sleep. Try very very hard not to interrupt this.

There was other stuff that the sleep clinic suggested, but I remember these as the core ones.

I like what PtGatsby suggests..

You can also try:

1. count backwards from 100, taking a full, deep breath (in and out) between each number. It actually works...this is supposed to occupy your conscious mind- and perhaps bore you to sleep.

2. For times when you've gotten up when you can't sleep- I do really easy crossword puzzles that are no fun, and are quite dull. I have no idea why this works. At any rate, don't do anything fun or interesting.

3. Take a hot bath and then go to bed in a room that's completely dark and a little cool- it's best if you don't wear pajamas, so your body really cools off.

4. Listen to classical music set on a loop- I like Eine Kleine Nachtmusic. It really works for me.

[Ms. M]

I usually use OTC sleep aids when I can't sleep. Generally, there's something else in addition to not being able to sleep, so I'll take something like Excedrin PM. The problem I generally have when I take them though is that while I fall asleep pretty well after taking them, I tend to wake up too early.

[celesul]

Benadryl (antihistamine) can help, but gradually your body can become accustomed to it so then it won't work unless you increase the dosage. However, increasing the dosage is likely to make it addictive, although certain people can become addicted to it at smaller dosages as well. My doctor recommended it to me because she said that it should work well, and I'm young enough that sleeping pills would be a last resort, because they have more side effects.

[Wolf]

Melatonin. I OD'd on it when I was at dad's place (now parent's) where people kept waking me up every 30-60 minutes all night long before that. I slept hard.

Schedules help a bit, but you need to get your body accustomed to it first and then stick to it... I don't know your situation, so I couldn't help beyond that.

[CzeCze]

I am seeking a cure that doesn't require a trip to the doctor.


I am a night owl with bad habits = insomnia. Insomnia in itself is not the problem, the problem is that the rest of the world doesn't run on night time schedule nor does work or school or friends and family smile fondly upon people who look like lazy ass mofos who are always late and groggy.

I get tired around 6pm-10 pm and get my 2nd wind which pushes me to 6am bedtimes. I don't need as much sleep as when I was in my late teens/early 20s, but still not good for the mind or body.

My tips?

If you seriously don't want insomnia -- work out. A LOT.

I lost 25 pounds this year (to be discussed in another forum) and when I was working out 2-3 hours a day and forcing myself not to nap during the day --

1) I thougt I seriously was going to die the first few weeks.

2) Eventually my body got on its own NORMAL rhythm and I went to bed by 10:30pm every night and woke up by 8am at the latest.

For the first time in basically EVER I consistently had energy during the day and felt very awake and alive and WITH the rest of the world.

It was wonderful.

Now months later and it's 3am my time, I've gained back about 6 pounds, and my schedule and bad time managament skills push me back into insomnia.

The truth is, as much as I like being witih the world and awake from 9am-5am, I love even more the familiarity of the night. I like how quiet and surreal it is and I can study/work/rant/play in peace. Especially since the weekends are meant for binging on drink/dance/parties/socializing till the break of dawn...

So...I don't even pretend that I'm trying to NOT be an insomniac anymore.

If you are what you are, just embrace it. Because fighting insomnia when you aren't serious is like constantly complaining about being fat and yo-yo dieting. You will waste the time you are awake complaining and focusing on a problem we both know you will not fix.

But -- if you ARE serious, again -- take the plunge and work out. Force yourself not to nap. Make yourself wake up 10 minutes earlier every week until you are up when you are supposed to.

Insomnia is like breaking any other bad habit and making a fundamental change in the way you live your life. It is HARD man and you have to commit and be disciplined. That is the ONLY way short of medication to fix it.

Hope this rant helps. :)

From one insomniac to another.

[ygolo]

Damn it! I stayed up too late. I have insomnia.

EDIT: Damn it! Have it again.

[prplchknz]

so I haven't been sleeping for the past couple of weeks, and been trying so hard to. Last night I took 3 OTC sleeping pills that had minimal affect on me, I took them between 5 & 8 as my room mate suggested since I have an 8:30 am class this morning. I was still up til 2:20 and still woke up at 6. I would go to the doctor but then my parents would find out and I don't want to worry them. I could try talking to someone, but I have nothing to really talk about. I just want sleep. I'd skip class today but unfortunatley I'm doing a project with someone and I need to be their to do my share of the work. Anyone have any ideas what to do, I've tried excersing (not right before bed) I don't know what to do. I can deal with this once or twice a week but 14 days of this really sucks. I really need sleep but nothing seems to work and last night I woke up about every hour.

I'm trying to avoid medication as in the past prescription sleeping pills made me even more drowsy during the day then when I just stayed up all night.

[Zergling]

If something is stressing you out, deal with it in some way.

Otherwise, you could try to make the insomnia productive, at least. Trying to get something done while being unable to sleep, instead of just sitting around or watching T.V., may be enough to tire you out and help you go to sleep again.

[Uberfuhrer]

My computer has insomnia (specifically insomniac syndrome). A lot of the times I set it to hibernate and it will shut off and boot right back up. It happens a lot when I use AIM.

[Uberfuhrer]

But anyway, doesn't warm milk help put people out? If you don't like warm milk, I don't see why you can't use it in some Campbell's clam chowder soup. It's quick, easy, and it should put you out.

[Beat]

I go through periods of insomnia. Usually for a couple weeks I just can't get any good sleep. I don't understand it or what triggers it really. I assume it's anxiety but normally I can't trace the anxiety to anything in specific.

[DeliriousDisposition]

I feel for you. I've had Chronic Insomnia since I was a kid due to various reasons and one particular. At it's worst I'm up three days at a time, crash, repeat. That lasted overall years during HS. Since last week I've been up 'two days' with one 'three day' patch. Even when I 'crash' and sleep, I wake up randomly throughout the night lol Fall back asleep or...not.

I know that meditation has worked in the past. You could try it. Just a few minutes or ten and build up each day until it lasts longer. You can take a hot bath before going to sleep. Cup of tea some time before. You can ask your room mate to give you a (full body or part) deep tissue massage, if you feel comfortable, and offer to give in return. And do it as long as you shall both live---together. Massage is wonderrrrful when done well. And massage yourself too, during your bath/shower and any time to 'prepare/accustom' your body to relax when you massage yourself before trying to sleep. As you didn't cite possible reasons as to why, I'm going to ask if you might have personal issues that might be a factor of your insomnia? Is it that you can't stop 'thinking' at night? Are you in a new enviornment? New people? New term?

And yea, stick off the meds. They wreak havoc with your body. I went against my reasoning years ago to 'try' them at 15 or so. Nearly put me to sleep forever - k, that was for effect keke :D . It just didn't work and really mucked me over.

Btw, why would your parents find out? Your doctor should treat everything confidential unless you're a minor deliberately harming yourself. It'd be illegal if otherwise (unless it's a different policy where you live).

[prplchknz]

well I'm still on their insurance and they're gonna see I went to see someone when they get the bill, and so yeah.

[nightning]

insomnia due to stress... aka sympathetic activation? If medication isn't doing the job, perhaps you should try dealing with it psychologically. Find a way to relax more... I dunno would a bubble bath and a good book before bed help? :unsure:

[CzeCze]

I've had chronic issues with insomnia but mostly it's self-induced and then gets ahead of me. I'm just naturally a nightowl.

When I had a very very stressful job that made me very very unhappy I was in a state of constant anxiety so I would crash as soon as I got home (anytime between 8pm-1am) and wake up by 5am.

When I quit that job, I did not sleep. Period. I couldn't. It was the strangest, most frustrating feeling. I was awake but exhausted and my brain felt heavy and exposed if that makes sense.

I realize now my room had a southern exposure and was WAY TOO bright and messed up my sleep patterns. And the depression and anxiety messed up the rest.

I think I already posted here, but I'll repeat it. I firmly believe that most insomnia can be cured naturally, really through routine and persistence.

Eat healthy, balanced meals. Cut out sugar and caffeine. Drink lots of water. Do some kind of exercise everday. NO NAPPING. Wake up at the same time every day, preferably before 10am. At least 1 hours before bed, start winding down. Dim the lights. NO TV, no video games. Make a ritual if it helps. Light candles. Put on background noise and put your head down. Trying to concentrate on a really dull book can help. Find out what temperature and light level induces sleep for you. Generaly the darker the better. Eventually you'll fall asleep.

Rituals can really help. Habits trigger your brain for 'sleepy time'.

I find I fall asleep much more easily on a massage therapists table (this is even before any massage starts mind you) or in the car (not when drivin, har har) or in class than I do in my own bed. Basically, something about having to "go to sleep" really makes you NOT want to. But if you catch your body off guard, the latent fatigue comes through and you sleep. So the other tactic is to stop thinking about sleep so much and tricking yourself into sleeping. Because really, your body does want to sleep.

For me 2 things have really cured my insomnia.

1) Strict regimen of diet and exercise. Basically it tired me out. I naturally started getting sleepy and going to bed before 11pm and waking up around 7 or 8 am.

2) Fasting. You will SLEEP. But it's easy to abuse or do fasting 'wrong' so I wouldn't necessarily recommend it to everyone. During the fast I was so fatigued I slept practically through the week and off the fast, I find that I still get very sleepy before 10pm (which is HIGHLY unusual for me) and I wake up naturally before 10am, without the need for an alarm clock.

Both of these things basically made me physically tired to the point my body overpowered my MIND and I couldn't fight sleep -- which for me is really the only way to get to beat insomnia.

[Jen]

Listen to Mama CzeCze ;)

3's too many. What did you take? I once took an ambien and it knocked me out within 10 minutes so I can't imagine taking three and actually ever waking up. Were you drinking as well.

You seem depressed and seeing a psychiatrist would be your best bet imo. Not being able to sleep is usually caused by stress and anxiety and if that is what's up with you, you may need anti anxiety medication. Diet and exercise
can also work wonders too.

Keep us posted and stay well. :hug:

[wedekit]

I've had insomnia for 3 years straight. Sometimes I have felt I was going crazy. I've taken up meditation recently and, although it doesn't make me sleep, I feel very rested and centered afterwards. I have to take medicine to sleep. I go to sleep at 12:00-1:00 and wake up at 7:30-ish.

[Griffi97]

CzeCze's advice is excellent. Try to establish good "sleep habits."

I have also suffered from insomnia my entire life and there are two things that have helped me tremendously.

1. Take 3 mg of melatonin about 30 minutes before bed. Melatonin has the added benefit of being an antioxidant. This regimen has also been shown in recent studies to decrease the frequency of or eliminate migraine headaches altogether for those who suffer from them (myself included).

2. Buying a Tempur-pedic mattress, or any other evenly supportive type of mattress (sleep number bed, etc.) This may not be possible for you since you live at home and those suckers are expensive, but when I finally took the plunge and got one... The first couple nights, we slept so hard we were sore the next morning. We had not moved the entire night.

Even so, I still have the occasional sleepless night. Insomnia can be a sign of depression, but in my case, it's just a matter of too many things running through my head when I try to go to sleep. My brain replays events of the day, I contemplate future plans, have sudden flashes of insight (and then forget them later ;) ), etc etc.

[prplchknz]

So I finally got sleep I didn't do anything special, Oh and my computer crashed so I'm not dead I'm taking it in tommorow to be looked at.


Ooh and no I wasn't drinking at least not the night I took the sleeping pills.

[Jen]

We just watched a show on HBO that I recorded last year called Wide Awake (http://www.hbo.com/docs/programs/wideawake/synopsis.html). Now this guy is neurotic so it's no wonder why he can't sleep. Anyway it's definitely worth watching.

Here's a song that was written about insomniacs. It's so beautiful. I :heart: REM. *chills*

R.E.M. Daysleeper (http://youtube.com/watch?v=dciDcRZovP4)

[alicia91]

I think you have to determine whether it's insomnia due to mental issues such as stress, anxiety, depression, etc. versus a body clock/circadian rhythyms issue (you are a night owl). If it's the latter it might be a good idea to simply skip a nights sleep and not allow yourself to go to bed even if you feel sleepy. Then go to bed the next night at an appropriate time. You will probably be sleepy by then and doing this should reset your body clock. Do not to try make yourself go to sleep if you are not sleepy (can't fall asleep within 15-20 min. of going to bed). Your body needs to get into the habit of being able to fall asleep quickly after going to bed. If it's the former and it's been going on for many weeks, then you need to talk to a doctor about it.

Good luck with it - I hope you find something that helps.

[wildcat]

I've had chronic issues with insomnia but mostly it's self-induced and then gets ahead of me. I'm just naturally a nightowl.

When I had a very very stressful job that made me very very unhappy I was in a state of constant anxiety so I would crash as soon as I got home (anytime between 8pm-1am) and wake up by 5am.

When I quit that job, I did not sleep. Period. I couldn't. It was the strangest, most frustrating feeling. I was awake but exhausted and my brain felt heavy and exposed if that makes sense.

I realize now my room had a southern exposure and was WAY TOO bright and messed up my sleep patterns. And the depression and anxiety messed up the rest.

I think I already posted here, but I'll repeat it. I firmly believe that most insomnia can be cured naturally, really through routine and persistence.

Eat healthy, balanced meals. Cut out sugar and caffeine. Drink lots of water. Do some kind of exercise everday. NO NAPPING. Wake up at the same time every day, preferably before 10am. At least 1 hours before bed, start winding down. Dim the lights. NO TV, no video games. Make a ritual if it helps. Light candles. Put on background noise and put your head down. Trying to concentrate on a really dull book can help. Find out what temperature and light level induces sleep for you. Generaly the darker the better. Eventually you'll fall asleep.

Rituals can really help. Habits trigger your brain for 'sleepy time'.

I find I fall asleep much more easily on a massage therapists table (this is even before any massage starts mind you) or in the car (not when drivin, har har) or in class than I do in my own bed. Basically, something about having to "go to sleep" really makes you NOT want to. But if you catch your body off guard, the latent fatigue comes through and you sleep. So the other tactic is to stop thinking about sleep so much and tricking yourself into sleeping. Because really, your body does want to sleep.

For me 2 things have really cured my insomnia.

1) Strict regimen of diet and exercise. Basically it tired me out. I naturally started getting sleepy and going to bed before 11pm and waking up around 7 or 8 am.

2) Fasting. You will SLEEP. But it's easy to abuse or do fasting 'wrong' so I wouldn't necessarily recommend it to everyone. During the fast I was so fatigued I slept practically through the week and off the fast, I find that I still get very sleepy before 10pm (which is HIGHLY unusual for me) and I wake up naturally before 10am, without the need for an alarm clock.

Both of these things basically made me physically tired to the point my body overpowered my MIND and I couldn't fight sleep -- which for me is really the only way to get to beat insomnia.
Candles are dangerous. They cause fires.

[CzeCze]

Candles are dangerous. They cause fires.

Kekeke, this is true, but mostly if you leave them unattended, near fabric and other flammables, and especially with a draft. I put my candles in large glass containers where the flame couldn't possibly reach over the top and the effect of drafts is moot.

[Ezra]

Exercise. Exercise. Exercise. This is the most effective cure for insomnia. As for other details, refer to those who either have been through insomnia or who have an encyclopaedic knowledge of insomnia.

[developer]

If there is no obvious reason for your lack of sleep (too much caffeine, other stimulants, something very exciting or worrying in your life), you should go and see a physician. Don't worry about your parents, they will be grateful if you seek medical advice.

All the well meant advice in this forum cannot replace a good physical exam and a set of lab tests.

[prplchknz]

I've been sleeping maybe it was just a very bizzare week. Plus I think my body decided to be on european time, It would be exhausted during the day but I had stuff to do then wake up at night. I think it finally realized it was in America and as much as it wanted to be in Europe it trying to be in european time wasn't going to make it true.

[Sandy]

There's a lot of good advice on this post!

I have suffered from insomnia most of my life (from about 6th grade on). I still suffer from it sometimes, but now it's mostly due to my mind not being able to turn off. I secretly worry that I am going to forget some thing important, so I have learned to "download" or transfer all of my random thoughts onto a steno book that sits on my nightstand.

I do hope you are getting more sleep, prplechknz!

[Little Linguist]

Does anyone else here experience insomnia? When?

[Jeffster]

Yes, all the time. I'm the poster boy for restless everything syndrome. ;)

[Victor]

Does anyone else here experience insomnia? When?

Sleep knits the raveled sleeve of care.

And sleep deprivation is a form of torture.

So not being able to sleep is serious.

And sleep is the last defence against mental breakdown.

So when someone tells me they can't sleep, I always take notice.

However insomniacs are able to sleep. It's just they think they can't.

So insomnia is a form of neurosis.

Insomnia is trying to tell you something, but you haven't been able to listen yet.

And if you don't know how to listen to yourself, you might think of employing a professional therapist to teach you.

[Night]

Listen to Victor.

[Jeffster]

I know exactly what it tells me, and I do listen, and it doesn't really matter. The bottom line is that I have to effectively exhaust myself both physically and mentally and not allow myself to get my adrenaline going too close to bedtime. Since I have become a parent, I have improved in those areas, but I still have my periods of failure to do so. Especially times like this in the summer when I don't have my son around as much as I do during the school year. :)

[Victor]

I know exactly what it tells me, and I do listen

So, what does it say?

[Jeffster]

So, what does it say?

That I have failed that day to do what I said in my last post. ;)

Either that I have not done more relaxing activities (i.e. not the adrenaline-boosting stuff) before bedtime, or I have not been active enough that day, thus not exhausted enough, too much pent up energy.

[Victor]

That I have failed that day to do what I said in my last post. ;)

Either that I have not done more relaxing activities (i.e. not the adrenaline-boosting stuff) before bedtime, or I have not been active enough that day, thus not exhausted enough, too much pent up energy.

OK, so what you are telling me is that you have not done the right external activities. Is that correct?

[kelric]

....
However insomniacs are able to sleep. It's just they think they can't.

So insomnia is a form of neurosis.

Insomnia is trying to tell you something, but you haven't been able to listen yet.

And if you don't know how to listen to yourself, you might think of employing a professional therapist to teach you.

I don't know about this. Is it a possibility? Sure. But I don't think that it applies to everyone who has trouble sleeping. I know that my Dad had trouble sleeping when he was in his 40's, but he knew exactly why... too much stress at work. But sometimes life doesn't have immediate options for reducing that... and so you have trouble sleeping and do the best you can.

As for myself, I rarely have trouble falling asleep, but wake up probably at least 5-10 times each night, and often can't fall back asleep easily. So I'll wind up getting 4 hours of broken, choppy sleep several times a week (and 6 hours of broken sleep, tops). Sometimes I just give up and get out of bed. I've been to the doctor several times (and given a couple of short-term prescriptions, neither of which did a thing), structured my sleep schedule, made sure I get enough exercise early in the day, etc. and haven't yet found a solution. But it's no fun. Wish I had better advice, but the best I've come up with is "relax and try not to think about it" - which is tough to do when you're lying in bed, tired and yet wide awake.

[Little Linguist]

I don't know about this. Is it a possibility? Sure. But I don't think that it applies to everyone who has trouble sleeping. I know that my Dad had trouble sleeping when he was in his 40's, but he knew exactly why... too much stress at work. But sometimes life doesn't have immediate options for reducing that... and so you have trouble sleeping and do the best you can.

As for myself, I rarely have trouble falling asleep, but wake up probably at least 5-10 times each night, and often can't fall back asleep easily. So I'll wind up getting 4 hours of broken, choppy sleep several times a week (and 6 hours of broken sleep, tops). Sometimes I just give up and get out of bed. I've been to the doctor several times (and given a couple of short-term prescriptions, neither of which did a thing), structured my sleep schedule, made sure I get enough exercise early in the day, etc. and haven't yet found a solution. But it's no fun. Wish I had better advice, but the best I've come up with is "relax and try not to think about it" - which is tough to do when you're lying in bed, tired and yet wide awake.

Yes, that is what I mean by "insomnia". Of course I do not mean a total lack of sleep.

[Jae Rae]

I disagree that insomnia is always a sign of neurosis. BPD causes bouts of insomnia - a friend of mine has both, with month-long periods of not being able to sleep more than 2 or 3 hours a night.

Many peri- & menopausal women have bouts of insomnia and unless you're a Freudian, hormonal shifts are not considered "neurotic."

[Jeffster]

OK, so what you are telling me is that you have not done the right external activities. Is that correct?

External AND internal, but yeah.

[Victor]

I don't know about this. Is it a possibility? Sure. But I don't think that it applies to everyone who has trouble sleeping. I know that my Dad had trouble sleeping when he was in his 40's, but he knew exactly why... too much stress at work. But sometimes life doesn't have immediate options for reducing that... and so you have trouble sleeping and do the best you can.

As for myself, I rarely have trouble falling asleep, but wake up probably at least 5-10 times each night, and often can't fall back asleep easily. So I'll wind up getting 4 hours of broken, choppy sleep several times a week (and 6 hours of broken sleep, tops). Sometimes I just give up and get out of bed. I've been to the doctor several times (and given a couple of short-term prescriptions, neither of which did a thing), structured my sleep schedule, made sure I get enough exercise early in the day, etc. and haven't yet found a solution. But it's no fun. Wish I had better advice, but the best I've come up with is "relax and try not to think about it" - which is tough to do when you're lying in bed, tired and yet wide awake.

Sure, you're lying in bed, tired and yet wide awake. You have tried several things such as structuring your sleep, exercising and prescriptions but nothing seems to work.

I can't help noticing all the things you have tried are external to yourself. So perhaps you might think of listening to yourself rather than controlling yourself by external means.

It seems to me you have learnt self control very well and are quite unwilling to give it up for periods of time. After all, when you go to sleep, you are no longer in control, you surrender to your unconscious. And hey, it looks after you quite well.

But you don't want to go to sleep and you don't know why. And you don't want to find out - you don't know how to find out.

So you just keep digging a deeper hole by external means when the answer may well be inside you.

But my guess is you don't want to know.

[Victor]

I disagree that insomnia is always a sign of neurosis. BPD causes bouts of insomnia - a friend of mine has both, with month-long periods of not being able to sleep more than 2 or 3 hours a night.

Many peri- & menopausal women have bouts of insomnia and unless you're a Freudian, hormonal shifts are not considered "neurotic."

Studies of insomniacs show that they sleep the same amount as non-insomniacs, but they keep telling us they can't sleep.

There is a disconnect there somewhere.

And that's what a neurosis is.

[Victor]

External AND internal, but yeah.

You keep telling me about the external activities you do but you have not told me about any internal activities yet, even though I asked.

It may be you don't know what an internal activity is.

[Little Linguist]

Okay, let me be more specific. What I mean is that after working a twelve-hour day - when I should be sleepy - I can fall asleep, but I either dream in a crazy way and keep waking up OR I wake up at like four a.m.

On the other hand, this has only been going on for a week or so, so maybe it is just a phase.

Strangely enough, I can sleep brilliantly on the weekend. So I think it's a stress thing. Can anyone relate? :doh:

[Victor]

Okay, let me be more specific. What I mean is that after working a twelve-hour day - when I should be sleepy - I can fall asleep, but I either dream in a crazy way and keep waking up OR I wake up at like four a.m.

On the other hand, this has only been going on for a week or so, so maybe it is just a phase.

Strangely enough, I can sleep brilliantly on the weekend. So I think it's a stress thing. Can anyone relate? :doh:

Is it a problem for you to dream in a crazy way? And is it a problem to keep on waking up? Or is it a problem to wake at four a.m.?

How are these things a problem for you?

Or is it that you don't like the way you feel?

[Victor]

Can anyone relate?

I think this is the most interesting part of your post.

It may be you don't want to talk so much about insomnia rather you want to relate - you want someone to relate to.

This maybe your best way of forming a relationship - by talking about something else - putting the watchdog of the mind to sleep by misdirection - so that you can form a relationship surreptitiously.

Men compete with each other for money and power while women compete with each other for relationships.

So for both men and women deception is a good competitive strategy because deception works. And in this case, it is deception by misdirection.

Hey, you had me looking in the wrong place.

But although deception is a good competitive strategy, it comes at a price. And the price is trust.

[colmena]

I started sleeping when I removed myself from society.

There's a faint whiff of the The Periwig-Maker (http://www.bbc.co.uk/mediaselector/check/filmnetwork/media/shorts/A24670956?size=16x9&bgc=FF3300&nbwm=1&bbwm=1&nbram=1&bbram=1&st=1) about my life. I am dead to the world, whatever I do.

I'd rather have cancer than be a full on insomniac.

[prplchknz]

When I'm stressed is when I often can't sleep, also if i have a headache I can not sleep either till it goes away.

[Little Linguist]

I think this is the most interesting part of your post.

It may be you don't want to talk so much about insomnia rather you want to relate - you want someone to relate to.

This maybe your best way of forming a relationship - by talking about something else - putting the watchdog of the mind to sleep by misdirection - so that you can form a relationship surreptitiously.

Men compete with each other for money and power while women compete with each other for relationships.

So for both men and women deception is a good competitive strategy because deception works. And in this case, it is deception by misdirection.

Hey, you had me looking in the wrong place.

But although deception is a good competitive strategy, it comes at a price. And the price is trust.

What was deceptive in my post? I talked about a problem, asked if anyone could relate in order to find a solution. :shock:

Perhaps I used the wrong word...

[spirilis]

What was deceptive in my post? I talked about a problem, asked if anyone could relate in order to find a solution. :shock:

Perhaps I used the wrong word...

Your (original) post sounded perfectly fine to me. Not sure what Victor was going on about.

----

I can't relate too well (I usually sleep like a dead rock, although sometimes I do wake up in the middle of the night, which can be very annoying) but I have a friend (also enfp, coincidentally) who has frequent insomnia. I believe it's usually stress-related for her, and/or physiological (illness or discomfort). The worst insomnia happens at certain times of the year which "trigger" past (bad) memories in her. I believe she's become more skilled with managing those situations but it's often a source of distress for her.

[Victor]

What was deceptive in my post? I talked about a problem, asked if anyone could relate in order to find a solution. :shock:

Perhaps I used the wrong word...

I'm shocked - you just talked about a problem, asked if anyone could relate in order to find a solution - simple, straightforward - how could anyone think otherwise?

How could anyone think you were deceptive - perhaps you just used the wrong word.

Wow!

You are just a simple, straightforward person - a person evolution has taken billions of years to fit for just for this moment.

Evolution has fitted us to lie from a very early age - in fact the moment a small child discovers they can lie, they are entering into their humanity.

Almost all animals practise deception, from camophlage to elaborate strategies of misdirection and everything in between. And so do we.

Deception works but it has a price, like everything else, and the price is self deception. The easiest way to deceive others is to deceive oneself first.

So you might say that deception is propaganda - and the only sin you can commit in propaganda is to believe your own propaganda. But we all do.

Deception and self deception are part of the human condition.

[Night]

Little Linguist - Victor isn't attacking you.

Interpret what he's saying.
Reading isn't enough.

[proteanmix]

Merged insomnia threads.

[prplchknz]

maybe we should have a new section called: I can't fucking sleep! and if someone doesn't help me fix this problem they might die!!

I may or may not be some what hostile when I haven't slept

[Jeffster]

You keep telling me about the external activities you do but you have not told me about any internal activities yet, even though I asked.

It may be you don't know what an internal activity is.

:huh:

Yeah, I do, actually, but thanks, cowboy. I just went back and read your replies to me and you never asked me anything about internal activities, maybe you meant to, but just forgot.

There's not much to tell in that area, though, thinking about stuff, feeling stuff deeply, actively working the body on the inside.

[kelric]

Sure, you're lying in bed, tired and yet wide awake. You have tried several things such as structuring your sleep, exercising and prescriptions but nothing seems to work.

I can't help noticing all the things you have tried are external to yourself. So perhaps you might think of listening to yourself rather than controlling yourself by external means.

It seems to me you have learnt self control very well and are quite unwilling to give it up for periods of time. After all, when you go to sleep, you are no longer in control, you surrender to your unconscious. And hey, it looks after you quite well.

But you don't want to go to sleep and you don't know why. And you don't want to find out - you don't know how to find out.

So you just keep digging a deeper hole by external means when the answer may well be inside you.

But my guess is you don't want to know.

I'll excuse the patronizing response as a genuine offer to help - so thanks for that :mellow:. I disagree with your premature diagnosis, however. You seem to think that I (and others in the thread that have mentioned having sleep trouble) have some sort of internal conflict that's eating me up, that I'm refusing to acknowledge it. Not the case, as far as I can tell - and I do reflect, meditate and think on such things. I do want to go to sleep. I love sleeping, dreaming, and all that comes along with it. No control issues associated with it. Do I have a little too much stress in my life? Probably, and it's likely a large contributor to my sleep trouble. But it centers around things that I'm not in a position to change at the moment, so I'm doing what I can.

I think that you're ignoring the possibility that lack of sleep can be due to many things - things that include physical conditions, neurological imbalances, lack of hormones etc. (note that none of these are psychological, another possibility). Are there cases where your whole "you've got some internal issue and are too weak, ignorant, and aggressively self-denying to deal with it, so listen to me, I have all the answers" idea might be correct? Sure, why not? But assuming that it's a major reason for sleep-deprivation in everyone seems a bit... well, short-sighted at best.

Such things are often complex, as those of us who've struggled with them well know. We just do the best we can. Again, thanks for your suggestions and attempts to help - it *is* appreciated. But your bedside manner could use a little work :D.

[Victor]

But your bedside manner could use a little work :D.

I'm not a therapist, I am a critic.

So rather than expecting a good bedside manner, expect criticism.

Also I write to meet my own needs, and sometimes when they are thwarted, I turn on my victim, usually in a superior patronising manner.

I am vinegar rather than honey.

An acquired taste, sometimes distasteful.

[colmena]

I'm not a therapist, I am a critic.

So rather than expecting a good bedside manner, expect criticism.

Also I write to meet my own needs, and sometimes when they are thwarted, I turn on my victim, usually in a superior patronising manner.

I am vinegar rather than honey.

An acquired taste, sometimes distasteful.

I was getting soft and cuddly vibes.

(for real)

[Victor]

I was getting soft and cuddly vibes.

(for real)

Look, Colmena, I may well be vinegar but I would love you to call me Honey, but only if it came from the depths of your heart.

[colmena]

I was thinking more teddy bear (the name Victor certainly helps). Honey is sticky. I don't like sticky.

[Victor]

I was thinking more teddy bear (the name Victor certainly helps). Honey is sticky. I don't like sticky.

Hey, call me Ted.

[Spartacuss]

Okay, let me be more specific. What I mean is that after working a twelve-hour day - when I should be sleepy - I can fall asleep, but I either dream in a crazy way and keep waking up OR I wake up at like four a.m.
Can anyone relate? :doh:

Yes. I went through months when I fell asleep easily but always woke up really early and could not go back to sleep. Depression is one cause. So is stress. Sleeping pills were useless. I had to fix what was bothering me. Until you get rid of the reason you are stressed you may not be guaranteed some good sleep. (assuming you're not bipolar)

[colmena]

DSPS (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delayed_sleep_phase_syndrome) may make more sense to some people.

[ygolo]

I hate insomnia.

Sleeping pills are impractical because they can ruin your day, and I don't have 8-hours available most of the time.